The personal sub

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CheerfullyInsane
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The personal sub

Post by CheerfullyInsane »

I was reading MistressD's thread about the Dommes perspective and, as always, it was well-put and thought-provoking.
It also got me thinking about a tendency I've noticed lately.
I could of course have posted it as a reply, but then it would no longer be "A Dommes perspective", now would it? :-)
Besides, I assume MistressD will continue her thread with new subjects, and I have no wish to muddy the waters.

Please understand that the following is in no way an attack on, or critique of, anyone in particular.
It is simply a personal observation, and should be viewed as such.

One thing that seems to have become prevalent, especially in virtual D/s, is a propensity to look at subs as somehow lesser beings. I'm not really sure why, perhaps it's because the internet lends itself so easily to 'mass-dominations', and thus cuts out the personal level. Or maybe it's because the gibbering masses have found a way to offer themselves.

The usual defense being that subs are a dime-a-dozen, and there's always another one around the corner.
Which I suppose is true, to a point. If all one wants is the ego-trip of getting someone to do something, there are thousands of volunteers out there, all with their own reasons for doing what they do.
But I'd postulate that most of these will do so out of a desire to prostrate themselves, not a desire to please any particular mistress.
If you want anonymous masses to do your bidding, that's fine. Go forth and wreak havoc.
But if you want a sub to follow your whims out of a serious desire to please YOU, then you have to realize that it is a two-way street.
Unless you're willing to spend the time figuring out what makes that particular sub tick, you'll never know where to push, or how far you can push.

Another statement I've come across is "Dommes aren't supposed to take an interest in subs. We're above them, and supposed to be detached and aloof."
Which is a crock of crap, if you ask me.
What they call detached and aloof, I call callous and arrogant.
If the domme shows no interest in me, what chances are there that I'll try to think of new ways to please her, without her asking for it?
If there's no interest, there's no chance of the domme being disappointed in my behavior, and thus it follows that there is little incentive to e.g. keep my hands off the interesting bits.
A detached domme makes for a detached sub, simple as that.

Then of course there's the ubiquituos line of "subs being genetically inferior" in some way.
Oddly enough, I see as many subs using that line as dommes.
But no matter who uses it, it is just mind-numbingly stupid.
First of all, if subs are genetically inferior, then it follows that not all dommes are gentically equal either.
Follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, and you find that it means there must be some genetic recipe for an Über-domme.
Maybe that is a 6'4" redhead, with one blue eye, one brown, six toes on the left foot, and a third nipple.
Maybe it's something else......But I kinda suspect that the argument is just plain wrong. :-D
Then there's the problem of a *lot* (if not most) people in the D/s scene being switches.
No doubt most people feels more comfortable in one role or the other, but I've met very few who doesn't get something out of power-exchange even on the 'wrong' end of it.

Besides which, if it was true, where would the submission part come in?
That would be like saying a dog submits to its owner.
It doesn't, the poor sod simply doesn't know any better.
A sub knows better. A sub is your equal, but willingly surrenders.
Isn't that far more interesting?

I guess what I'm trying to say that while you have to have something to show a Domme when approaching (no, not that), the reverse is also true.
You get what you give.
Any D/s relationship requires trust to some degree.
The domme will have to trust that I'm willing to let go, and let myself be pushed.
I have trust the domme not to push too far.
Once that trust has been earned, there are very few things I wouldn't do, albeit probably with some trepidation.
But if I feel like I'm in constant competition for the dommes attention, it won't make me try harder.
It'll simply make me leave.

Thus endeth the musings.

CheerfullyInsane
(Proud sub)
By the time you swear your his.
shivering and sighing.
And he vows his passion is,
infinite, undying.
Lady, make a note of this:
One of you is lying.
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Evals
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Re: The personal sub

Post by Evals »

I think there is a line between fantasy and reality for most people. For me, fantasy is probably more along the lines of some of what many people write in teases. It's fun to think about and enjoy the mental image of something extreme and impersonal, but when it comes to real life and actually being controlled by another person, it's all about the personal connection. It reminds me of a now very old post on Milovana, from somebody who really enjoyed the cuckold fantasy, but when it came true... not so much.

The real thing I feel is all about the deep connection that exists between the two people doing the power exchange. The trust involved in doing so, in letting them know you're willing to hand over some freedom if you're the sub, or if you're willing to be the guiding hand if you're the dom. Somebody was asking me last night, who was having trouble understanding BDSM and how you can really "give your freedom" to somebody else if in the end it's all consensual. But when it's brought to a personal level, at least for me, what binds you to your word is the desire to make the other happy. And of course both sides usually enjoy themselves in the process.

Kinks online are great fun, but the real satisfaction lies in forming a personal connection with another where trust is handed over. Alas, that's not as easy as looking up a webtease.
Last edited by Evals on Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The personal sub

Post by vergo »

I just bookmarked this thread. I think I should read it daily.
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Re: The personal sub

Post by MistressD »

This is a great topic for discussion!

I'll probably talk about this in more detail at some point, but to me a D/s relationship (and I've been on both sides of the slash at different times) should give both parties what they want and need.

I definitely use the term relationship which implies 2 (or more) people who care for and have respect for each other.

To me, the best aspect of being a domme is finding out what makes the other person tick, and (to quote a friend of mine) "manipulate" situations to push their limits a little and maybe let them experience new sensations or fantasies. Now, on occasion I may want to experience a fantasy of my own, but even then I'll try to create scenes that make sure that all parties enjoy the activities.

Just try to keep things fun and stay open to exploring yourself and your partner and D/s can be a very rewarding relationship. I know that I've certainly been enjoying it and plan to continue!

Mistress D
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Re: The personal sub

Post by kinkydomina »

I speak only for myself: when I am callous, cold and distant, it is in order to fend off people who approached me in the wrong manner. If the first word a paying slave asks me is: "Strapon?", how should I reply?
I just ask: "Manners?"
Does the slave address me in this fashion because he is aware, as some of the posters here said, that he is always in control of what goes on?
This is a two way street. I like to be polite, and I demand respect from anyone who addresses me.
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Re: The personal sub

Post by smallitalian4 »

Another excellent observation/article I think EVERYONE should read. I agree with you it is a two street. The saying is treat others the way you want to be treated. If you come into a chat room and be rude, guess what I am going to be rude back. That doesn't matter if you are a Mistress or a sub. I do think the internet has brought a general lack of respect toward others. You don't have to sit down and talk face to face. So I think some people feel that they don't have to be responsible for their actions or there general respect towards others.
un-ownded :( but looking to be owned :)
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Re: The personal sub

Post by CheerfullyInsane »

Indigo wrote:Which brings me to another interesting thought ... Who's the one really in control? Sure, the Domme has the power, but if the sub says stop, then it's game over, right? And who's the one setting the limits? To me, there is no Dom/me without a sub to follow them. In my eyes, that puts the power more in the hands of the bottom.
kinkydomina wrote:Does the slave address me in this fashion because he is aware, as some of the posters here said, that he is always in control of what goes on?
This is one of the most convoluted, intricate things about D/s, and one that makes it hard to describe the attraction to outsiders.
Sure, the sub is in the position to always say "no".
But then again, so is the domme.
So oddly enough, both are in charge simultaneously.
Calling it a dominance vs. submission relationship is, in my opinion, something of a misnomer.
It much more resembles a symbiotic relationship, where the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.
So while the sub can say no, the reasons for doing so becomes important.
Saying no just to state a "mini-rebellion" and establish some sort of control would to me defy the whole purpose.
And I'm pretty sure the domme would get fed up with it, and quite rightly find another sub.
Saying no because it genuinely steps over some boundaries like e.g. being bullwhipped down the main street, is fair and should obviously be respected.
Meaning that either the domme backs off, or finds someone on her level to play with.

Final thing about control.
While the option to cop out is always there, the ability might not be.
Judging from my own experiences, when I delve into 'sub-space', there are so many things going on in my head that I am in no position to make rational decisions, nor able to consider all the ramifications of my actions.
Once I put myself into a position to be pushed, trust becomes imperative.
Which also means that the control of the scene ultimately rests squarely on the domme.
Evals wrote:It's fun to think about and enjoy the mental image of something extreme and impersonal, but when it comes to real life and actually being controlled by another person, it's all about the personal connection. It reminds me of a now very old post on Milovana, from somebody who really enjoyed the cuckold fantasy, but when it came true... not so much.
Too true. Some fantasies should remain just that.
The thing about fantasies is that while one fantasizes about being without control, it is still ones own fantasy.
Which means that nothing will ever happen that one is not in complete control of.
There's an american psychologist called Nancy Friday, who wrote a whole series of books about sexual fantasies
("My secret garden" and "Women on top" being my favourites), in which she used interviews and letters from 'ordinary people' , and one of the things that struck me is that something like 75% of all women has or have had a fantasy involving forced sex/rape.
Obviously this doesn't mean that they actually want to live through a rape.
But in a fantasy it is a safe way to fire up the neurons.
kinkydomina wrote:I speak only for myself: when I am callous, cold and distant, it is in order to fend off people who approached me in the wrong manner. If the first word a paying slave asks me is: "Strapon?", how should I reply?
I just ask: "Manners?"
smallitalian4 wrote: I do think the internet has brought a general lack of respect toward others.
There is a certain lack of manners online.
One of the problems of the internet, is that it is a whole world that is ultimately under your own control.
You don't like what someone is saying? Push the ignore button.
Alienated everyone at a website? Find another one.
Add to that, the fact that you rarely, if ever, meet the people you talk to in real life, and you have a recipe for a small 'god-complex'.
The interesting bit, and one of the reasons I keep coming back here, is that the problem decreases proportionally with the community size.
The smaller the community, the greater the chance you'll run into someone again, thus making it in your own interest to be polite to them in the first place.
It also means that word of mouth will spread that much faster, and people will know about bad behaviour even wihout ever having met the person in question.
While it doesn't eliminate the problem of inarticulate dimwits roaming around, it can at least ensure that they'll prefer to go somewhere else. *g*

On a final note (I know I tend to ramble), the whole control question reminded me of an old joke:

A sadist and a masochist meet in a club, and hit it off.
After a while they decide to go home. and get more personally aquainted.
Back in the living-room the masochist strips naked, and looking over his shoulder asks in a quivering voice:
"Are you going to whip me now?"
ANd the sadist smiles, leans in and whispers:
"No...."

CheerfullyInsane

PS: Indigo, I loved that skydiving signature *LOL*
By the time you swear your his.
shivering and sighing.
And he vows his passion is,
infinite, undying.
Lady, make a note of this:
One of you is lying.
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Re: The personal sub

Post by MistressD »

Indigo wrote:
MistressD wrote:
To me, the best aspect of being a domme is finding out what makes the other person tick, and (to quote a friend of mine) "manipulate" situations to push their limits a little and maybe let them experience new sensations or fantasies.

Mistress D
I happen to agree! Curious to know, who's the friend that might have said that? Sounds like something I might have said once ... (was kinda hoping you weren't paying that much attention though!)

Indy
Hmm, I have so many friends it's hard to remember sometimes, but that does sound like something you might say Indy ;-) !

I should point out that I don't mean the term manipulate in a bad way. One could argue that advice or guidance given for any reason is an attempt to manipulate, and in the context above I meant it purely in terms of helping my playmates to experience new stuations and grow in a relatively safe environment.

Life is a never-ending opportunity to explore, my goal is to make that exploration more rewarding!

Mistress D
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