Time frame for chat improvements?

[Banquo]

It has been well over a month now since the new chat became active. We have been promised untold amounts of improvements. Whilst I appreciate the amount of work going into it. The chat still is far from perfect. And not something I really enjoy using.

I used to very much enjoy the old chat system (when it worked.) But I find this new one boring, dour and lacking in any kind of features. I do not enjoy it. And I miss the group interaction that I got using the old one. Even the old refugee camp was better than the current solution. Can anyone tell me why new chat was rushed in as a temporary system? Especially when the camp was a perfectly working solution that could have served a purpose giving the coders time to get the new chat working as good as possible.
Now it seems improvements can only been done here and there with the odd hour of downtime. This does not seem a logical step.

I guess the reason I started this thread is to try and get some answers as to when we will see some kind of improvement. I did ask in the down time thread itself but answers were not forthcoming.

I look forward to using a usable and polished chat in the future, but to be honest my hopes of seeing this any time soon are fading. Will we ever see these features implemented? If not fine, I can deal with that and will find an alternative chat to use. But Milo is a unique place and I would rather not have to.

Banquo

[SexualChoc]

am NOT the authority
http://www.milovana.com/forum/viewtopic ... 76#p119876

as you know is where much of the discussion has been.

I, frankly, am also impatient
but things are being worked on, of that I am sure.

[breathplayslut]

ditto. looks like shit. i know what kind of backend effort goes into making things work properly but maybe you put the cart in front of the horse with launching it before it was ready.

proper previous planning prevents piss poor performance.

[Banquo]

proper previous planning prevents piss poor performance.

That's some pretty good alliteration there

[Dream_On]

When was the last time there has been an issue with chat being down as a whole for something other than planned maintenance? The priority right now is getting the disconnect bug and a couple other bugs worked out before adding more features that can possibly add more bugs and make tracking down bugs more difficult. Yes in its current state the new chat is a bit dull compared to the old chat, but the old chat was at a point where it was down more than it was up. And also only had one person to work on any problems that came up.

I would also like to remind people that all of the work being done on chat is VOLUNTEER work. They did not have to put the work into chat that has been put into it. Yes chat has been lacking many of the features that used to be available, but the idea has been to minimize downtime and provide something more stable than what the flashchat was. Please be patient and things will be added as bugs get sorted out.

[Banquo]

When was the last time there has been an issue with chat being down as a whole for something other than planned maintenance? The priority right now is getting the disconnect bug and a couple other bugs worked out before adding more features that can possibly add more bugs and make tracking down bugs more difficult. Yes in its current state the new chat is a bit dull compared to the old chat, but the old chat was at a point where it was down more than it was up. And also only had one person to work on any problems that came up.

I would also like to remind people that all of the work being done on chat is VOLUNTEER work. They did not have to put the work into chat that has been put into it. Yes chat has been lacking many of the features that used to be available, but the idea has been to minimize downtime and provide something more stable than what the flashchat was. Please be patient and things will be added as bugs get sorted out.

Firstly I appreciate that it is all volunteer work, and as I have said above all work is appreciated. But Dream, this does not really answer the question of why new chat was rushed into service and your refugee camp closed? This would have allowed Turtle the time he needed to actually get the new chat system running properly before it was hastily brought into use.

Secondly I did not mention any times that chat was "down" recently, just that it was a poor shadow of its former albeit unreliable self. In fact as far as I am concerned we would be better off with chat being down a hell of a lot more so that maintenance and improvements can actually be made, instead of lumbering on with a system not yet ready.

And honestly I would say "a bit dull" is a criminal understatement, the new chat is so terribly dull to the point I wont even deign to use it. also "less features" you mean NO features surely, apart from the ability to chat with people. You cant even set a sound to go off when a message arrives in public chat.

A few honest and concise answers to points I raised would be appreciated.

I am rapidly losing faith in a site that I have come to thoroughly enjoy over the last few months, and have made several contributions to with forum posts teases etc.

Banquo

[les]

I absolutely hated the old chat having such a restricted window.
Which made following chats with multiple attendees so damn difficult.
Despite the pretty bells and whistles appearance.
Especially for me be a looky and not touchy typist.

I for one prefer a clean uncluttered appearance as I want to concentrate on others thoughts.

it seems to becoming quite common bemoaning the speed of production of our volunteers free content.

           Keep it up and they will leave for a quieter life,

               rather than a thankless one!

[Dream_On]

Only seraph can answer why the new chat was pushed as the replacement as fast as it was. The camp was going to be closed whether the new chat was pushed out or not. There were a few issues I was having with it administratively and I was getting word of complaints of people not being able to get into it or do anything once they did. I had started work on something else to replace it, but once the chat here was opened as an alternative and far more people showed up to that than had to the camp I set up there was no need for the camp any more. The initial plan was to have the new chat up as an alternative and that it would be worked on when flashchat was working again. Which unfortunatly did not happen with whatever problems there were between flashchat and wherever it was hosted.

I do think part of the problem with some stuff being done is syncing turtle and seraph up with the time gap between them. This is at least part of the reason for downtimes being when they have been. Any timeframe information on features is only going to come from turtle and seraph, but as I said before when you add features there is a possibility of more bugs. So features are likely going to wait until the disconnect bug is resolved.

[les]

Seraph's Noon is Turtles 3 AM
And
Turtle's NOON is Seraph's 9 PM

See here
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/m ... =87&p2=137
for this weekend.

[Banquo]

I absolutely hated the old chat having such a restricted window.
Which made following chats with multiple attendees so damn difficult.
Despite the pretty bells and whistles appearance.
Especially for me be a looky and not touchy typist.

I for one prefer a clean uncluttered appearance as I want to concentrate on others thoughts.

What do you think of the new chat then? Have you been using it more than you used the old one?

it seems to becoming quite common bemoaning the speed of production of our volunteers free content.
           Keep it up and they will leave for a quieter life,
               rather than a thankless one!

I have on many occasions thanked the volunteers for their contribution, but the fact that they give their services for free should not waive the right of others to be critical. I started this thread in order to get answers to some questions I have about the site. If you want to see that as "bemoaning" others useful contributions then so be it.

Only seraph can answer why the new chat was pushed as the replacement as fast as it was. The camp was going to be closed whether the new chat was pushed out or not. There were a few issues I was having with it administratively and I was getting word of complaints of people not being able to get into it or do anything once they did. I had started work on something else to replace it, but once the chat here was opened as an alternative and far more people showed up to that than had to the camp I set up there was no need for the camp any more. The initial plan was to have the new chat up as an alternative and that it would be worked on when flashchat was working again. Which unfortunatly did not happen with whatever problems there were between flashchat and wherever it was hosted.

I do think part of the problem with some stuff being done is syncing turtle and seraph up with the time gap between them. This is at least part of the reason for downtimes being when they have been. Any timeframe information on features is only going to come from turtle and seraph, but as I said before when you add features there is a possibility of more bugs. So features are likely going to wait until the disconnect bug is resolved.

Thank you for giving me at least some of the answers to the questions I was asking Dream. Hopefully Turtle and Seraph will be able to give a more detailed answer as to if and when we will be seeing improvement.

I would be grateful to know if it will be weeks, months, or years, before we see features implemented into the new chat system. Or ultimately if we will ever see chat with more features than we have now. I await an answer from seraph or turtle on this one.

Banquo


addendum

# of people that used the Refugee Camp < # of people that use the New Chat

I'm truly sorry that you aren't happy/comfortable with the new chat in it's current form, but based on the average population of the new chat it is clear that many more people ARE content and comfortable with it as opposed to the old Refugee Camp. Numbers don't lie, but dissenters are always more vocal than approvers.

There is no time frame for getting new features added. I was too surprised when the new chat was made the official chat so soon, I didn't feel it was ready. However, the number of users it typically has rivals the number of users the old chat typically had... and both far outweigh the number of users the Refugee Camp ever had.

I for one much prefer the new chat to any of the previous chats, bugs included. (And at least it isn't down 2 out of every 3 days.)

Clearly this means that the new chat is highly popular doesn't it, is it not possible that the introduction of new chat has also coincided with the end of much of the worlds academic year? and thus we are seeing increased traffic due to more students having time away from studying? Only the truly naive would believe that numbers don't occasionally show results that are not truly reliable.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics


I find it regrettable that members of the administrative team seem to have no desire to improve what is a woefully inadequate chat system.

EDIT:

Out of interest do your statistics show an increase in users or simply an increase in people logging in...the rapid disconnect problem could indeed be skewing your "don't lie" numbers.

[Banquo]

This will be my last post in the thread.

*baffled look*

This is your opinion. One that I don't share and one that many others don't share. While at the same time many DO share it. It is simply opinion, and one that you are entitled to.

I am indeed entitled to this opinion, and you are of course entitled to disagree

However

I fail to see your point.

I'm not using any hard statistics, I'm only using empirical evidence. I don't think anyone knowledgeable in the subject would disagree with me. Namely, I'm sure Dream would concur that the new chat is more popular than the refugee camp she setup was.

Again simply seeing that there "seem" to be more people around is hardly empirical evidence. And of course a site hosted chat (no matter how badly implemented) will be more popular than a barely advertised temporary chat hosted elsewhere. That's like saying more people use Internet Explorer because it is better.

Banquo

[Dream_On]

Again simply seeing that there "seem" to be more people around is hardly empirical evidence. And of course a site hosted chat (no matter how badly implemented) will be more popular than a barely advertised temporary chat hosted elsewhere. That's like saying more people use Internet Explorer because it is better.

The new chat gets a lot more traffic than the camp did. The camp seldom had more than 5 people in it at one time, where the new chat regularly has 10+ people. The camp was mostly regulars with very few new people poking in and those that did never stuck around. And even with the regulars at least a few had problems with the camp being unuseable, Tea and BG being two that come to mind.

Sure things like the school year being out can contribute to the difference in traffic, but that doesn't account for how the new chat was immediately more popular than the camp as soon as it was opened. Honestly I'm not sure why the camp is even being brought up as the only thing anyone can claim it had better was more color to it. I made it and I think the camp was a crappy chat room.

Edit: Right now there are 12 people in chat. I do not recall ever having that many at the camp at one time. It is possible it happened when I wasn't there, but never at a time when I was there.

[Banquo]

Sure things like the school year being out can contribute to the difference in traffic, but that doesn't account for how the new chat was immediately more popular than the camp as soon as it was opened. Honestly I'm not sure why the camp is even being brought up as the only thing anyone can claim it had better was more color to it. I made it and I think the camp was a crappy chat room.

I think the point is that the camp could have been used while the new chat was being built, rather than releasing it in an unfinished and vapid form.

And like I said above a site hosted chat is bound to be more popular than an offshoot one. So popularity is irrelevant. Usability is far more pertinent, as well as a desire to improve.
I think it was Oscar Wilde who said

"Everything Popular is Wrong"

Which is kind of a paradox because he was pretty popular... anyway I digress. Stats and figures can be used to prove anything.

So I will simply wait for Turtle or Seraph to answer the question, is it worth my while hanging round for an improvement? or should I simply accept that the new chat will remain bland and featureless for the foreseeable future?

Banquo

[Dream_On]

I think the point is that the camp could have been used while the new chat was being built, rather than releasing it in an unfinished and vapid form.

And like I said above a site hosted chat is bound to be more popular than an offshoot one. So popularity is irrelevant. Usability is far more pertinent, as well as a desire to improve.

The camp was not without its own problems, which due to the instability of flashchat and due to my schedule at the time I didn't have the time to work on. There were several complaints of the camp not being useable or of people getting in and not being able to change their name from the goofy default one or type anything into chat. It's not like the camp would be an upgrade over chat.

There is a desire to improve, that is what brought about the new chat in the first place. Features aren't being held out because no one gives a shit about them. They are being held out because the more that is going on with the room the harder it is to track down bugs. The disconnect bug is a major problem and needs to be fixed. I think it is pretty safe to say that this is far more usable than flashchat.

Edit: Turtle is going to be busy this weekend so I do not know if he will get around to replying to this before Monday. But I am sure he will give what feedback he is able to when he can. I do not know if/when Seraph will reply to this.

[Banquo]

I think the point is that the camp could have been used while the new chat was being built, rather than releasing it in an unfinished and vapid form.

And like I said above a site hosted chat is bound to be more popular than an offshoot one. So popularity is irrelevant. Usability is far more pertinent, as well as a desire to improve.

The camp was not without its own problems, which due to the instability of flashchat and due to my schedule at the time I didn't have the time to work on. There were several complaints of the camp not being useable or of people getting in and not being able to change their name from the goofy default one or type anything into chat. It's not like the camp would be an upgrade over chat.

There is a desire to improve, that is what brought about the new chat in the first place. Features aren't being held out because no one gives a shit about them. They are being held out because the more that is going on with the room the harder it is to track down bugs. The disconnect bug is a major problem and needs to be fixed. I think it is pretty safe to say that this is far more usable than flashchat.

I think we have already discussed how the camp wasn't perfect as well as the well known problems with the flash chat. *sigh* I think it is fair to say the new chat was rushed out too early and simply isn't ready.
It has already taken over a month to solve this one issue *looks at calender* It will be interesting to see how many years it is before chat has even a tenth of the features we used to enjoy here. Clearly the need for Turtle and Seraph to be present to do any work will prove to be problematic in the quest to achieve some kind of decent chat system. And this fact does not fill me with faith that we will have a decent chat this side of haileys comet.

Banquo