women haters?

[littlepos]

Over the years, i have done a lot of self examination. To determine, as best i can, who i am, and why i behave the way i do.

One thing that i always needed to know about myself was why i enjoyed being submissive, and having women be abusive and cruel to me.

Between my own research, and the research and knowledge of a couple of friends in the fields of phsycology and phsyciatry, i think we have a general answer

Due to some childhood events, and bad relationships with women and girls my own age, i tend to associate aggresive negative behaviour with caring.

Secondly, and most importantly, i have a trust issue, mostly with females, and because of my history and childhood, tend only to trust a woman when they are at their most negative.

For instance, i would trust a woman i was told was a slut much more than i would trust a woman that was described as a good, generous person, because i would think that the good woman was just hiding her true colors.

So, according to this flawed logic, only when a woman is being cruel and demeaning, is she actually being herself.

This is an attitude i have worked on ever since, and i think i have made some real progree against these woman hating tendancies. I still enjoy the treatment, but now i can seperate it from the person.

Now, i always wondered if this was the case for other men like me. And honestly, seeing how a lot of otherwise freindly men respond to women who post on these forums when the women dont cater to the men, i begin to think it might be at the core of most of these sexual preferences. That, a submissuve, at heart, just might be a chronic woman hater.

might not get a lot of love on this one, but i can take it

[JDude]

littlepos,

It sounds like you have worked out a possible source for your own submissiveness. That being said, your possible source is not a blanket reason for all male subs outlook on dominant females. Best of luck in your continued self research.

jdude

[JaceDare]

Y'know, that's a very interesting theory, and I can see a lot of validity to some of your ideas. My first thought is to question whether you genuinely have 'woman-hating' tendencies or whether they would more accurately be described as trust issues or another, not so aggressive, term. But it sounds like you've done a good deal of self-examination, so I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm surprised that you came up with the word 'hate' to label what you're describing.

That said, you may well find people on this site whose submissiveness, if they're honest with themselves, also comes from similar feelings or experiences.

Personally, my submissive behavior comes from something quite different, although it is also rooted in childhood experiences. When it comes to those formative years, my experiences with women were mostly positive. I come from a caring family with loving parents and siblings. But I grew up being taught that it's good to put others before oneself. I was raised to believe that 'it's better to give than receive.' I don't think my parents would have applied that lesson in quite the same way, but ultimately I submit because I want to put another person's desires ahead of my own.

I'm also a very empathic person. I have a higher than normal sense of what those around me are feeling, and their moods have a higher than normal effect on my own. In other words, if you're happy, I'm more likely to be happy. Now, that's true with most people, but it's your empathy that causes that effect, and mine is higher than most. The effect is further increased when I know I'm the cause of the other person's mood. If I've made someone upset, I'm bound to be more upset than they are until I know I've made it up to them. Conversely, if I've made someone happy I'm likely to be even more happy than they are. You can see how this would strengthen a submissive relationship.

In some cases this leads to what I call an emotional feedback loop (you know, like when you get a microphone too close to a speaker and the high-pitched squeal just builds upon itself). I have an empathic friend, and if she's in a foul mood it puts me in a foul mood, her mood gets worse when she notices my foul mood, my mood gets worse knowing that I've worsened her mood, etc. The mood builds upon itself.

This causes an interesting conflict in a D/s relationship. Many Dommes are pleased with a slave when he humiliates or hurts himself, so in my case I would have to cause myself pain to kick-start the loop. My pain leads to Her happiness, I feed off her happiness and become happier and want to increase her happiness, I cause myself more pain or humiliation to feed Her happiness which in turn feeds my happiness. In that way, I feel the positive and the negative simultaneously and it creates a very intense, and in many ways difficult, emotion.

So that's why I like submission, but I'm sure there are lots of other reasons out there. Thanks for sharing yours. Self-examination isn't always an easy thing, and sharing an opinion you expect to be unpopular takes guts. So my hat's off to you pos. I hope you get some other responses here because I'm fascinated by the reasons behind behavior.

-Jace

[littlepos]

Thanks, Jace

i also have a problem with having a very fine tuned sense of empathy. That was another thing that i learned about myself. Its hard sometimes, because you know how people really feel about each other, and things around them, sometimes feelings they did not even know they had.


Hate is a strong word, but used more like when someone says they "hate" spiders or "Hate" clowns, but "Woman Fearer" jsut doesnt have the same ring

Bri

[tdrules]

I can almost relate. I've only been in one LTR (long term relationship) with someone. I moved away from my hometown for her while she went to school. Then she ended up cheating on me. I was heartbroken if not jaded because I have had trust issues with women also. My family has a history of cheaters and alcoholics. So with in my own family I've seen cheaters and even more of a trust issues. Two things I have swore to never become. I have control issues with females. My mom controlled me as a teenager, never letting me do anything. My sister tried to control me as a adult, when we was roommates making me pay for everything while she played housewife.

I have a history of being controlled by women. Which is why I think T&D appeals to me. Because it balances me out I can live my "real" life being myself because I am controlled sexually by a femdom. Tit for Tat you may say. With my orgasms being controlled I get that urge out of me and I can live my life for me. I really don't know how else to say it if someone don't understand.

I hope the best for you and everyone else.

[lemming4hire]

I can relate to this. My earliest memory is about an abusive girl in my first grade class. She would always tell me not to go play basketball with the other boys, and to just talk to her while on the monkey bars. One day, I decided to try and play basketball anyway. The next day when I went back to the monkey bars, this girl really scratches up my arm, and I stayed with her on the monkey bars for the rest of the recess breaks that year. I definitely remember enjoying my breaks, but the girl was really territorial. Then my mom transferred me out, and I didn't see her again until high school. I didn't understand the significance of this until long after puberty. Do any of you have similar childhood experiences? Please send me a message about it or something in case I lose track of this thread.

[dark]

I think the most people make such abusive experiences in their childhood. As a child you get abused and you abuse, because childs don't empathize what others could feel. Children are focused only on themselves and their needs. It's a tough world, but we all carry our package.

One point is very important for me: I really don't wanna know. I understand the curiosity in us, but I try to take things as given if I enjoy them. Being submissive is joy for me. Being a human, too. So I would never want to know why we exist, when I die or why I like any fetishes. I take it as a given gift and to lift the curtain which hides all these wonderful things in my life would destroy my being.

As for me I can say I have a general trust problem in people, because I notice almost every time a human lies to me. It is my burden, but I can handle it. Of course the result is I also have a problem with trusting women. It is true that in the moment of devotion there are no doubts and worries, but I could never trust a dominant woman just because she is cruel and "shows her pure self". The reason is more simple:

There are no worries, because I can give love and if she is cruel to me in this moment my love weigths tons more.


Women are difficult. Women are full of love and full of hate. Women are weak and powerful. But in the end women are the primary reason why I enjoy my life. And I don't care why. It's given and I will die with a smile

[RoniDev]

...That, a submissuve, at heart, just might be a chronic woman hater.

I disagree. From my knowledge it is excatly the opposite. But you are right with something, we are are what life made us, we are the sum of our experiences. Noone is born with submissive feelings, noone is born with a fetish. Those are results of what he had experienced in our life so far.

You are right that hate could play a role in submission. Its that moment when you started to like it. Those moments when pain turns into pleasure. Pain doesnt always mean that it has to be physical. I think many people missunderstand that concept of pain. There is reason why the wrong word can hurt more than a knife.

Sure at that time you hated it, you wanted it to stop. But in our wicked mind, deep down in your subconsciousnes, deep down inside of you, buried in a hidden place in your head. That pain turned into pleasure. You hated her for doing it, but the truth is you loved it. Thats was the moment when you surrendered, when you changed and you didnt even realize it. at least not in that moment.

It was the same with me and reading those posts here a lot people also had made some similiar experience in their life.

Do we hate women? No we dont! We love them, its a real deep and intense love, we crave them, we adore them and in a wicked way we want them to hurt us, we want them to give us that moment back, that moment when our pain turned into pleasure.

Its really not hate, but it could start with hate yes.

[dark]

There is no hate without love. Maybe this sentence is also valid in the opposite (at least for submissives), who knows. I still think it's caused by more than just an experience. But we will never find out (hopefully ).

[littlepos]

Let me add something here.

My submissiveness and my love of pain are not the same thing.

My life, like most, has been filled with pain. I think early on i decided that i could not escape it, defeat it or always run from it, so i embraced it.

I love pleasure also, but pain, emotional, physical, phsycical, empowers me, makes me stronger. The more pain i endure, the more pain i can endure. It builds me, who and what i am.

Pain does not sexually excite me, any more than a good workout or winning a football game, or getting that raise you worked so hard for.

Pain is not submissivness, and submissivness does not really give pain.

just wanted to make sure i was clear

Thanks

[JaceDare]

But you are right with something, we are are what life made us, we are the sum of our experiences. Noone is born with submissive feelings, noone is born with a fetish. Those are results of what he had experienced in our life so far.

I'm going to have to disagree pretty strongly with this statement. While it may be true that no one is born with a fetish (since most people aren't born with any sexual awareness at all), your statement implies that we are simply a blank slate to be written on by life. This leads to the logical conclusion that because I can't control life and I am influenced by my experiences, I can't be held responsible for the choices (good or bad) I've made. How could anyone possibly blame me for anything if I am simply what life made me and my choices were dictated, from the moment I was born, by my experiences thus far?

littlepos provides a good example to the contrary, though. He says he couldn't escape pain so he chose to embrace it. A different person in identical circumstances might have chosen to flee from pain whether escape was possible or not, or to wall himself off from his emotions in order to avoid his pain. We become who we are because of a combination of experience and choice. Without choice, society collapses. Just ask the Wachowski brothers.

-Jace