Looking for some philosophycal input

[Sett]

Hi guys! I'd like some opinions on a thought that recently crossed my mind.

Me and my wife work very well together, except one thing, and that is porn. As you probably guessed, i don't give a damn about anyone watching it, including my wife and including myself, while she isn't exactly happy about it. In fact, porn has been so far the only serious source of discord in our relationship. For her, me watching anything is the next worst thing to an affair, and it hurts her very much. There is also reason for that in her past.
Now, i never really took it very seriously, dismissing it as her idiosyncrasy, an opinion, that will change in time, when she realises it doesn't really affect her, or myself, in any way. However, a nagging thought has crossed my mind recently.

Disclaimer: i do NOT approve of cheating or polygamy in any way (unless not only accepted, bud DESIRED by all parties involved), and i would never cheat on my wife, or ontone, but purely from technical point of view...

You see, there is very little, if anything, that would make cheating objectively harmful. There are, of course, some problematic areas, but 99% of the negative attitude towards polygamy comes from emotional struggle, which in turn is given by education and culture, and basically is the kind of thing that "is what it is, because it has always been what it is".
Well, in theory. In practice, you end up hurting someone, and it makes no difference whether you consider the underlying cause to be social taboo, your lack of empathy, or anything else. It doesn't matter. Think of it what you will, but your beloved gets hurt, it is bad, and you should feel bad.
See where i'm heading with all of this? It's the same with porn. It doesn't really do anything to anyone, does it? But if your spouse hates it, and it hurts her, she eventually ends up hurt anyways. Again, it doesn't matter why or how. She does, it is bad, and you should feel bad.
And the similarities don't end here either.
They say ignorance is a bliss. Your wife is very much fine if she doesn't know you're cheating. She's just as fine if she doesn't know you watch porn. You'd never cheat on her, but are naughty when she'd not around, aren't you? But is that really different in any way other, than the magnitude of social acceptability?

What do you think?

[green]

I think your wife has insecurities. She may think that she is not worthy/good looking/good enough when you watch porn.
The problem is not watching porn its the feeling it creates inside her.

You can't do much about it. Just show her that you love her in any way you can, and that she is perfect just the way she is.
If she's into it, maybe shoot a video with her
If that all doesnt work, you either have to never watch porn again or get a new wife.

[Nezhul]

You see, there is very little, if anything, that would make cheating objectively harmful. There are, of course, some problematic areas, but 99% of the negative attitude towards polygamy comes from emotional struggle, which in turn is given by education and culture, and basically is the kind of thing that "is what it is, because it has always been what it is".

I disagree. It's not the only reason why cheating is being frowned upon. Now I'll explain a few background reasons as to why most people feel uncomfortable if their partner sleeps with someone else.
1) First thing first - I agree, education and custom play a hudge role. It's just not the only reason, and moreover they have a DEEPER reason behind them.
2) Genetical reason. Digging to the very bottom you will find that to reproduce human beings actually need to put FAR more effort and energy than most other species. Hence - monogamy, because it's easier to accomplish something with a partner who's always there.
- For most species pregnancy is not much of a bother realyy. For humans, however, it's a big burden on the body because we walk on two legs. Human female spends LOTS of energy for being pregnant
- Human children grow very slow. Most animals are able to walk and feed themselves in a matter of weeks, if not hours. As for human, it's a matter of YEARS. To reproduce, parents have to take care of the child for a very long time, that's another reason for cooperation.
- I don't know exactly the basis of this mechanism, but humans are one of a few species that develop a deep emotional bond to others of their kind. Most animals don't. Very few species are able to bond so tightly as to completely change behaviour patterns or even commit suicide in case of death of a close one. And being so emotionally invested make you more concerned about the actions of your partner.
- And the last thing I'll mention is the matter of ownership. Some may say it's unapplicable to other people, but in fact it is. We divide our world in three categories: "mine", "not mine" and "unimportant". Your partner obviously falls into the category that you want to be YOURS.

Now, having said all that, sex is not meant for pleasure, it's meant for reproduction. We use it for pleasure, yes, and that's completely fine. However we go against nature by using contraceptives, or simply pulling out before cumming. The problem is, that our mind that allows us to understand reasoning behind such behavior is much, MUCH younger than other parts of it, that know a simple truth: fucking is for making babies and should not be taken lightly. Basically, you can justify sex all you want, but deep down your core says to you simple things:
1) Sex is very serious
2) it brings a lot of trouble
3) should be made only with a trustworthy partner
4) a partner = mine.

Having sex with another people contradicts the "Parther" part of it. "If he's a partner with another women, then how can he pay full attention to me and my child, ensuring best odds of survival?". It's actually more true for women, because it so happened this gender is much more invested in a process of making a baby and then taking care of it. But it's true for a man as well, because "If she's having sex with another man, has his child, then she will not be able to take care of MY child"

That's how I see it.

Now for watching porn. No, I do not think that it's the same as cheating. Porn is a fantasy, like every movie. You do not criticise anyone when they watch a romantic movie and feel for the characters. No one thinks, that in supporting and liking a male protagonist in such movie, a women actually LOVES him and CHEATS on you, right? Same with porn. It's not cheating, it is admiring a fantasy. Like a book or any other movie.

The reason some people don't like their partners to watch porn lies in their own insecurities. It's quite useless to explain that she is still the most loved and beautiful. She will still think that if you are interested in watching other women being naked, than she's kind of not enough for you. Insecurities are a bummer, and you'll have to live with it.
It's just as well that in my opinion watching porn is a safe method, much more harmless than looking at another women in real life. =)

p.s. I'm talking as a man now, but if I was a women and didn't want my husband to watch porn, I'd provide him with enough sex so that he's too tired/satisfied to think about porn. And that porn would look more boring for him than I would look. Men can handle only so much sex in a single day.

[jackstock]

porn isnt going to help your relationship.
but resist nothing. do what you truly want.

[PlayfulGuy]

I agree with some of what has been said above by others, and disagree with some of it too. For what it's worth here's my two cents. In your post you said

... there is very little, if anything, that would make cheating objectively harmful. There are, of course, some problematic areas, but 99% of the negative attitude towards polygamy comes from emotional struggle, which in turn is given by education and culture, and basically is the kind of thing that "is what it is, because it has always been what it is".

and

It's the same with porn. It doesn't really do anything to anyone, does it? But if your spouse hates it, and it hurts her, she eventually ends up hurt anyways.

I have to disagree with you. Cheating usually leads to more cheating, and to lying to your partner about where you've been and what you've been doing, AND it most definitely does something TO YOU.

It has a huge affect on Your Mind. When you're having sex with her you're mind still carries images of the other woman or women. You're automatically comparing her to them, and them to her. You can't help it. When things get rough it's that much easier to think "I don't need her", because you know you can go somewhere else.

And yes, it IS the same with porn, and I'm inclined to think regular use of porn is even worse. It fills our minds with images of all kinds of things that many people never experience, and it always leaves a mark on our consciousness. It's absolutely unavoidable. I wish she had a pussy like that. I wish her tits were like that. Why won't she do that with me? Why won't she let me do that to her?

I've been single for over 10 years, and in that time I've only had one other sexual partner. For whatever reason it just doesn't happen for me. I'm not the kind of guy to have sex with any woman I can just for the sake of it, and I'm apparently not the type of guy women just want to jump in bed with. In those years I've become my own best partner, and have developed a great relationship with porn. Some of the best sexual experiences I've ever had have been with my self and my collection of toys. And believe me, my mind (and hard drive) are full of images of all sorts. The impact of all that on my mind is incalculable.

I'm no longer sure I could have a relationship with a real woman. Think about that for a moment, and don't think for one minute that you can look at porn all you like without it affecting you.

You and your wife are partners. If you bring in others, even virtual others through the use of porn, you move into a love triangle. Most people, and I believe women in particular, see their primary relationship as a place of safety. If one of the partners is having a relationship with another person, or with porn, (or alcohol, or drugs or whatever) the safety of the relationship becomes questionable.

Porn can be highly addictive. Don't make the mistake of thinking that it'll be okay as long as she never finds out. It will affect your relationship, sooner or later, in some way or other. DON'T make the mistake of

dismissing it as her idiosyncrasy, an opinion, that will change in time, when she realises it doesn't really affect her, or myself, in any way.

It absolutely does affect you, and it affects your relationship, so it affects you again through the affect on your relationship, and it clearly affects her in very real ways.

Maybe honest and open discussion can help the two of you work towards a mutual solution over time, but if you go against her wishes, do it with your eyes open, knowing that down the road it may cost you dearly.

PG

[Aaron]

Of course I don't know you or your wife, so any input bears the danger of being based on wrong assumptions.
Having said that, I think the most important thing for you is to answer your own questions for yourself.
If you did not have any doubts about watching porn at first, why has this nagging thought crossed your mind?
You have very strong feelings about polygamy, stating that to be approved of it is not enough that all parties accept it, and then ask, if watching porn might, in fact, only be gradually different from polygamy.
So the topic seems to having become quite grave and important for you, maybe because it is grave for your wife, but maybe also because of moral ambiguities you might have yourself.
So try to first answer for yourself, without thinking too much about society or your wife, if you think watching porn while being married is okay.
I may well make wrong assumptions, but they are based on talks with male friends, and also the fact that most boys first have to watch porns in secret, because their parents (in many cases mostly their mothers) dont want that, and then, when being in a relationship and later married, many grown up men have a tendency to watch porn in secret again, because their wife does not approve.
You write: she is fine as long as she doesn't know you watch porn. But trying to hide something, gives the impression, if being caught, that the hiding takes place because it is indeed something which is not ok.

[Sett]

Thank you guys, now i have even more to think of

[jackstock]

are you submissive to your wife?

[Nezhul]

Even if he is it's clearly not the kind of submission for her to forbid him watching porn. Or the matter would not arise entirely.
There are all levels of submission. It's quite wrong to think that being submissive means you have to agree to anything or follow every whim. For example one may be sexually submissive in bed but in such a way that it doesn't affect everyday life at all, and the pair is equal. The best arrangement for DS relationship IMO, because it's quite hard to trully love an inferior person (Slave, whatever).

[SexualChoc]

I realize I am posting a bit late on this one...

I am going to tackle this with this idea
Action and Impact
How you perceive something is not always the same as how it impacts others.

next is there a religious component? to her.. dislike?
Many faiths SAY they dislike porn,
(fun fact- 80% of all pastor's watch porn- and pay for it porn use increases dramatically with the visits of ministry groups)
Muslim extremest say that nudity is evil and yet.. what do we find.. you guessed it ..porn.

sadly facts and logic do not work when feelings get involved.
If her emotions are hurt...
then they are hurt, period.
if you are doing something you Know hurts someone.. well there are consequences..
as I know, having gone through a Third divorce..

as for helpful ideas..
some things that have worked for other couples (though may or may not work for you)
1> talk about her fantasies, if she says she has none get My Secret Garden by Nancy Friday. a bit older book but still good.
2> take pictures of her nude and use those as your porn
3> talk about how you will only orgasm for her (yes this actually has worked)
and.. talk about counseling and getting some professional help to deal with everything.
or in other words.. ignore everything I have jsut written and seek professional help.