Assignment: Send me a pic

[SophiaStafford]

FYI -- "Nelson" is currently in the lead with a full face shown, full nudity but covering his excitement with a sign, and even being brave enough to show us his weird giant areolas while posing in a room that looks like it's from 1994.

Will anyone be able to out-freak Nelson?

[SophiaStafford]

Just an update-- I did get many excellent responses and have chosen three that will be considered winners and featured on Toxic Treat hopefully this Friday.

Sophia

[Baldrick]

I have been curious - how many people did fulfill the desire, Sophia?

[Sh3llSh0ck]

It is a surreal feeling indeed... on.

If you ... interesting.

That is ... approach.

So, in both instances,... view.

Sophia

First of all, I didn't want to have a giant post 50% of it being a quote, hence why I condensed it.

Second of all, this story has been on my mind all day. I woke up early for work and found myself on this site and reading the post. About halfway through the day I made up my mind to join the site, if for no other reason, than to respond to this post.

I've been a long time "stalker" of the forums and milovana, though never really joined in. Before I really tell you what it is I want to say, I want to give a little background about myself.

I'm a 25 yr old, above average, attractive guy. I'm well rounded and enjoy pursuits of academia, athletics, and mechanics/technology. I enjoy the arts, I enjoy cooking, I enjoy fixing and breaking things (not neccessarily in that order). I've been in several different areas of work and currently have somewhat of a manger's position at an IT company. I'm single and mostly happy to be. I'm a bit of a loner and don't really know what to do with myself when I've got someone who needs me all the time. I'm mostly in charge of myself and enjoy it.

That said, reading that story made me thoroughly excited. The thought of being so dominated that I would be forced/want to do something I wouldn't normally do, and even be brought to tears doing it turned me on so much! That is a thrill I've often wondered what it would be like to experience. It has long been something I've been curious about, and I don't exactly identify myself as a submissive; but this story made me ache to be in her position. What a fantastic story, thanks for sharing even the simplest of details. How I long for something like that to possibly ever happen to me.

[zadig]

That said, reading that story made me thoroughly excited. The thought of being so dominated that I would be forced/want to do something I wouldn't normally do, and even be brought to tears doing it turned me on so much! That is a thrill I've often wondered what it would be like to experience. It has long been something I've been curious about, and I don't exactly identify myself as a submissive; but this story made me ache to be in her position. What a fantastic story, thanks for sharing even the simplest of details. How I long for something like that to possibly ever happen to me.

People are attracted to danger. Like you, Sh3llSh0ck, these stories from SophiaStafford's history have haunted me since coming across them the past few days. There's a real appeal to the *fantasy* of being so brought so low. I could be wrong, but can't imagine that the *reality* meets the fantasy. At least from the submissive (or victim) perspective. If one is thoroughly demeaned, perhaps to the point of ruining one's life, those long term effects stay after the short term thrill are gone. Then again, from the dominant's point of view, perhaps it's just a gift that keep on giving ("Hey, you're still screwed, aren't you!").

Still, it is fascinating. There are so many questions. What is more enjoyable for the dominant? Coercing the victim into a situation they hate yet must adhere to, or changing their desires so that they love and plead for what they once hated? In a session, it seems the former may be possible, but in a longer term relationship, the latter seems the only workable way. Is it better to bring about the humilliation, say by revealing someone's secrets, or better to coerce them to bring the humiliation upon themselves by having them reveal the secret themselves? How does one create a situation wshere the submissive would do the damage themselves? Either way the victim is powerless, but in the latter the victim is an active partner in their own demise. That's got to bring an extra little zing to the party.

There are also the issues of responsibility. How "should" ( a dangerous word!) a dominant person use their gifts? Should the submissive be improved through their training or ruined? How does one handle submissives who *need* humiliation and ruination? Are they to be protected from their desires, or treated as fuel feeding the dominant's need? Or does none of that come into play here?

Just a lot of thoughts buzzing around here... As always, thanks for reading.

zadig

[SophiaStafford]

Great issues and questions. Taking them in the order I see best:

What is more enjoyable for the dominant? Coercing the victim into a situation they hate yet must adhere to, or changing their desires so that they love and plead for what they once hated? In a session, it seems the former may be possible, but in a longer term relationship, the latter seems the only workable way.

Speaking for myself, there is absolutely NO comparison between the two in terms of enjoyment. Actually 'sculpting' someone's thoughts, desires, and behavior is far more appealing. But keep in mind, I may not be typical of dominants-- I still am unsure to what extent the labels "dominant" or "lifestyle dominatrix" even apply to me (more on this later).

A lot of dominants deeply enjoy (or certainly appear to enjoy) the idea of taking a submissive, tying them up, and once the submissive is immobile, systematically inflicting physical pain. Indeed, this may be the quintessential sadomasochistic scenario, the archetypal "Scene". But it has almost zero interest for me.

For one, it's unappealing because I have no way of knowing exactly what pain "feels like" to the submissive. There's widespread self-reports that, for some people at least, pain feels genuinely pleasurable when the recipient is sexually aroused. Thus when I do inflict pain on someone, it's usually unexpectedly so their nervous system hasn't gotten to 'adapt'. (And preferably in public.)

For two, the "tie up and hurt" scenario is unappealing to me because the person is so completely immobilized. Where is the joy in hurting someone who is tied up? What does hurting a handcuffed man say about me? Almost nothing. There are many people in the world who like to be tied up and hurt, and they will gladly engage in this activity with any sufficiently attractive person.

I realize, of course, that I'm the odd one out here. Most people do find joy in it-- but I personally find it vaguely boring.

Alternatively, having someone who clearly doesn't enjoy being hurt but is willing to be hurt for a chance to be with me-- that says a lot about me.

So ropes, for me, detract rather than enhance. I want the physical possibility for my victim to stop me to be present at all times-- but their desire for me is so great, they can't even reach out and stop me when I slap them right in the face-- not even when they see it coming, not even when they know t IS going to hurt. Desire overwhelms them, their addiction to me is their bondage-- that is infinitely hotter.

And this is, I suspect, why I enjoy inflicting emotional pain far more than physical pain. Physical pain fades quickly, pain tolerances vary greatly, and I'm convinced that at least a few people don't even feel physical pain as noxious in some sexualized situations. Emotion pain is very real-- you can see the tears. Emotional pain fades very slowly. Emotional pain is true danger and a true submission-- it isn't just some rollercoaster offering temporary scares but always guaranteeing perfect safety. Emotional pain hurts, it scars, it lasts, and it's very, very real.

Is it better to bring about the humiliation, say by revealing someone's secrets, or better to coerce them to bring the humiliation upon themselves by having them reveal the secret themselves?

Again, it depends on how the secret was obtained. Revealing secrets that were found without the aid of the victim is only mildly interesting. Revealing secrets that were given to me explicitly so they could be revealed is extremely enjoyable, particularly when the secret is sufficiently painful and destructive. Also fun are people who, after confessing a horrible secret, immediately reveal the secret themselves rather than sit and wait for the day I decide to reveal it.

But the best of all are people who get so addicted to making me happy that they will humiliate themselves just because they know I want them to.

So, specific examples, in order of increasing hotness.

--Finding out a random stranger is cheating on his fiancee and telling her.
--A random stranger telling you he is cheating on his fiancee without expecting her to ever find out.
--A random stranger tells you he is cheating on his fiancee and gives you her phone number so you can tell her this.
--A random stranger brags about his beautiful fiancee and the upcoming wedding, but is clearly hitting on you. As flirtation strengthens, he slowly begins to lose his swagger and begins to recognize his place. When he breaks down and propositions you-- despite appearing shocked, you slowly smile as if flattered and say "well, I mean, if you weren't getting married, who knows what would happen." Ultimately, he calls his fiancee and let's you listen as he tells her the wedding is off). And _then_ telling him that he's unattractive and did his fiancee a big favor by calling off the wedding rather than letting her eventually leave him for someone more attractive.

The last one, of course, is the hottest. As regulars of Toxic Treat may note, it is also one of my favorite little memories. (and no, I don't know what happened to them. He could have called back and tried to get her back, or maybe they never got back together. I never found out.)

How does one create a situation where the submissive would do the damage themselves?

I try all kinds of different things. Most boringly, sometimes I just tell people ahead of time enough about what, generally, will be expected of them so that I know that they'll be prepared to do it when the time comes. Numerically, this is actually the most common since it's the least amount of planning involved, but it's certainly the least fun.

More substantial mind sculpting isn't conceptually difficult to understand, and the basic principle has been discussed on a lot of websites including my own. The trick is really just having enough insight into a person to be able to know which buttons to press and when to press them.

Remember that from a purely natural point of view, procreation is a living thing's only true purpose-- secondary even to survival. For some species, copulation is invariable fatal for the male, but that doesn't stop them from participating. Evolution-wise, procreation that is damaging or even fatal is still infinitely better than a long but celibate life.

Nature has made humans _very_ flexible in terms of what they can grow to find arousing-- males in particular seem infinitely adaptable to what they can enjoy. For example, making a straight man into a bi man is absolutely trivial-- just make two guys do things with each other for your amusement and they can't stop themselves from from associating one type of pleasure with the other. Adding a sexual interest is far far far more easy than extinguishing one-- i.e. making a straight guy truly GAY, to the point that he stops hitting on women and only hits on guys-- that's a genuine, and is very very very difficult.

When you hear about dominatrixes who have neutral "command words" that make their subs get erect on command, it seems really impressive. (I know it impressed me immensely the first time I read about it). But actually, these things are way easier than they look. Submissives are human clay-- they beg to be molded and they always bear the fingerprints of their past.

Everyone has been molded into developing new fetishes-- even the most boring people.

For proof-- consider this: breasts aren't "actually" sexy. I know this may sound unbelievable, given how devoted most people reading this are to the female form-- but there is nothing _inherently_ sexual whatsoever about breasts.

If you were a member of a primitive hunter-gather tribe, there's a good chance you would live your whole life without it ever occurring to you that breasts are especially sexy. If you were a radiologist who conducts mammograms all day, seeing a patient's breasts is probably downright boring.

So why is it that guys will _die_ to see even the briefest glimpse at a beautiful pair of breasts? Why do men pay billions every year for the privilege of images or videos of topless women? Why would most of the people reading this post hurt themselves irreparably for even a moderate chance of seeing me in such a state?

Because society has you well trained. You know full well that in our society, female toplessness is strongly associated with sexuality. You know it so well that you have long ago forgotten that there could ever be any other way of perceiving things.

But rest assured, if you lived your life where women were always topless unless they were about to have sex, you would find breasts to be boring and shirts to be incredibly hot.

Most fetishes are that. Somewhere along the way, a guy starts to associate stockings with sexuality. Pretty soon, the stockings along are enough to drive him crazy.

This works for almost anything you can imagine. The only effort involves is in getting the person to be both highly aroused AND doing things they find repulsive. After that, their own minds take care of the rest, obediently learning to associate the pleasure with the humiliation, until eventually, they have grown to utterly fetishize the repulsion.

I could be wrong, but can't imagine that the *reality* meets the fantasy. At least from the submissive (or victim) perspective. If one is thoroughly demeaned, perhaps to the point of ruining one's life, those long term effects stay after the short term thrill are gone. Then again, from the dominant's point of view, perhaps it's just a gift that keep on giving ("Hey, you're still screwed, aren't you!").

Yes, it is the gift that keeps on giving. This is why almost every dominant person you meet is bound to have scrapbooks, mementos, reminders of great accomplishments.

Yes, for the submissive, these sorts of activities aren't transitory and the pain can be longstanding. Perhaps it's wrong of me, but to me, this is the greatest joy of the whole thing. They will live their whole lives and never ever forget me. The more permanent the destruction someone will inflict on themselves-- well that just makes it all the hotter, doesn't it. Perhaps I'm just evil, but at least I'm honest and upfront about it.

If it's any consolation, I think most of the people I actually like-- they do find it to be a worthwhile trade-off. And while the pain of hearing an unspoken truth spoken aloud may never go away, the sexual appeal of the memory doesn't seem to go away either.

So, for example, the "cow" girl sent me roses the very next monday, after I had hurt her so badly, she still "thanked me for a lovely evening and hoped we could see each other again sometime". Even though I didn't have any further contact with her for a long, long time, when I emailed her to ask for a picture of her holding up a sign admitting what she'd done that night, she quickly did as asked.

And that's very common-- most people I talk to after the fact describe their experiences as something they revisit often and enjoy over and over again. Given another chance, they happily come back for more-- so all and all, their experience does appear to be a net positive for them.

There are also the issues of responsibility. How "should" ( a dangerous word!) a dominant person use their gifts? Should the submissive be improved through their training or ruined? How does one handle submissives who *need* humiliation and ruination? Are they to be protected from their desires, or treated as fuel feeding the dominant's need?

Indeed, these are interesting issues, oh ye of great insight. And thus Toxic Treat. For what should someone with such a predilection do, when considering these questions, but make a website? Why explore these issues with a single person-- be they priest, psychologist or philosopher-- when you can explore them with the whole world.

I can basically summarize my own approach being about as close to "purely selfish" as is possible for someone who is a moral person in general. I've been doing things like this since before I even grasped sexuality, and I certainly did them for years before I even considered the moral ramifications.

I do think about such issues now, of course. I'm a little uncertain about whether acting on interests is "right" or not. But in all honesty, I don't think I've ever let such qualms affect my behavior. Even _I_ am only human, and _this_ is what sexuality is for me.

If you give me all this power to be able to do absolutely whatever I want, how can you blame me for using that kind of power. If you place me in a world absolutely overflowing with people who are incessantly beg, plead, pay, or sacrifice for a chance to make me happy in any way--- how can you blame me for 'giving in' and letting people completely obliterate their own ego just so I can watch and laugh and enjoy. If the fruit is to be forbidden, then it shouldn't be so very easily harvested and it shouldn't be so damn tasty.

Sophia

[Foxhawke]

Wow, what a fascinating post. At a few points reading through it I thought to myself "that's horrible!" but I also found myself incredibly aroused reading it all. I wonder if this is the first time I've found someone to be genuinely frightening and incredibly arousing at the very same time for me. Toxic treat indeed.

--A random stranger brags about his beautiful fiancee and the upcoming wedding, but is clearly hitting on you. As flirtation strengthens, he slowly begins to lose his swagger and begins to recognize his place. When he breaks down and propositions you-- despite appearing shocked, you slowly smile as if flattered and say "well, I mean, if you weren't getting married, who knows what would happen." Ultimately, he calls his fiancee and let's you listen as he tells her the wedding is off). And _then_ telling him that he's unattractive and did his fiancee a big favor by calling off the wedding rather than letting her eventually leave him for someone more attractive.

The last one, of course, is the hottest. As regulars of Toxic Treat may note, it is also one of my favorite little memories. (and no, I don't know what happened to them. He could have called back and tried to get her back, or maybe they never got back together. I never found out.)

I can't help but wonder what this guys reaction was when you snubbed him. If you don't mind I'd love to hear a little bit more about it (or a link to your site where I could read more).

Thank you so much for sharing all this with us.

[glasgowguy]

Have you ever felt remorse for anything you have done, Sophia?

Edit:

Obviously I'm sure you've felt remorse in your lifetime, squishing a bug or whatever. My question is related to your interests in life destruction, extreme humiliation etc etc.

[SophiaStafford]

Have you ever felt remorse for anything you have done, Sophia?
Obviously I'm sure you've felt remorse in your lifetime, squishing a bug or whatever. My question is related to your interests in life destruction, extreme humiliation etc etc.

Yes, because like anyone, there are tons of things I've done that I feel remorseful about. A few of them did turn me on immensely. But the things I feel remorseful about usually weren't actually done due to my interests in humiliation. Rather, I did them out of normal motivations-- anger, for example. I later regret them out of normal motivations-- empathy, for example. The fact that I found it arousing was just a pleasant bonus, not a motivation.

and

No, because sex is sex, even when no touching is involved. Verbal slaps and the psychological burns-- that _is_ my sexuality. Invariably, it ends up being their sexuality too. (Were they always "latent" submissives? Or did meeting me actually 'make' them that way? There's no way to be sure.)

But point being-- however unfair the interaction, I think the majority of my former 'victims' would go to great lengths for a chance to be similarly 'victimized' by me in the future. I didn't choose my 'orientation' anymore than they chose theirs-- So don't blame me that I got lucky in the lottery of life while you lost. I didn't set up the lottery, I didn't force you to enter, and I don't force you to play.


Besides-- even the other person in my relationships invariably winds up with the short end of the stick-- it's obvious they vastly prefer getting "the short end of the stick" to not getting any ends-of-sticks at all.

Of course, you online freaks are an _entirely_ different species altogether. Here the moral questions are aren't even imaginable. You boys pass by millions of sites about women pleasing men and come instead to sites about women who treat you like shit. For you, the short end of the stick is genuinely preferable. Unless you have kids, I can, with a clean conscience, make you do basically anything I want to make you do.

[Sh3llSh0ck]

Sophia:

Simply reading your responses and what thought you've put into this, not to mention what it is that turns you on, is exciting.

I'm fairly new to a lot of this, and yet I do find a common ground. The emotional side, the desire to be forced into something.. but it being me giving up my freedom. These are indeed the exciting things.

You are an extremely hot woman from what I can tell about your sexual and mental prowess.

[nakedoncam]

when will the pictures You have chosen go up on Toxic Treat

[SophiaStafford]

when will the pictures You have chosen go up on Toxic Treat

Friday, along with a new assignment. More on this in a moment under new topic.
S

[sexualreflex909]

when will the pictures You have chosen go up on Toxic Treat

Friday, along with a new assignment. More on this in a moment under new topic.
S

Sophia you scare me!

I think many of the subs here take part in games such as the pictures as its at the end of the day a bit of fun, yet you seem to want to take that fun and actually cause pain with it.

I really am confused

[Timshel]

I really am confused

While you might draw pleasure from a webtease or by submitting such a photo, she draws pleasure from the power to cause real pain. It seems mostly pyschological over physical.

The things that drive us are often different and varied, that is what allows people to be a top or a bottom. It might be natures way of creating complements, a theory of yin and yang. While you don't desire what she does, doesn't make it less of a desire of some.

I thought the what is was obvious, now the why...or perhaps the how... could be a long interesting discussion.

[zadig]

Sophia, Thank you for your extensive reply.

For two, the "tie up and hurt" scenario is unappealing to me because the person is so completely immobilized. Where is the joy in hurting someone who is tied up? What does hurting a handcuffed man say about me? Almost nothing. There are many people in the world who like to be tied up and hurt, and they will gladly engage in this activity with any sufficiently attractive person.

Imho the hardware - the ropes and cuffs and such - are ultimately there for the emotional response as well. The physical sensations cause the feelings of helplessness and power. Naturally there are some who enjoy the physical side for itself -- the endorphin rush that pain brings -- but many others enjoy it as a path to an emotional state.

Desire overwhelms them, their addiction to me is their bondage-- that is infinitely hotter.

It is *awfully* hot, yes!

--A random stranger brags about his beautiful fiancee and the upcoming wedding, but is clearly hitting on you. As flirtation strengthens, he slowly begins to lose his swagger and begins to recognize his place. When he breaks down and propositions you-- despite appearing shocked, you slowly smile as if flattered and say "well, I mean, if you weren't getting married, who knows what would happen." Ultimately, he calls his fiancee and let's you listen as he tells her the wedding is off). And _then_ telling him that he's unattractive and did his fiancee a big favor by calling off the wedding rather than letting her eventually leave him for someone more attractive.

There's something appealing about this, the idea of the victim trading up with the hopes of gaining someone more valuable only to end up with nothing of value at all in the end. Heartless and cruel, but oddly appealing. Again, for the victim the fantasy must be so much better than the awful reality.

Everyone has been molded into developing new fetishes-- even the most boring people.

Agreement many times over for your entire line of thought here and in the following paragraphs. We can see it to a lesser degree in the vanilla world in the turn of fashions from year to year, decade to decade. Context has much to do with seeing something as sexy or not.

This works for almost anything you can imagine. The only effort involves is in getting the person to be both highly aroused AND doing things they find repulsive. After that, their own minds take care of the rest, obediently learning to associate the pleasure with the humiliation, until eventually, they have grown to utterly fetishize the repulsion.

More agreement and a big "Yay!" for behavior mod. Though the process has a sameness about it, the infinite variety in which it can play out fascinates me. Control gained and behavior changed through incremental steps constantly captivate and arouse, imho.

If it's any consolation, I think most of the people I actually like-- they do find it to be a worthwhile trade-off. And while the pain of hearing an unspoken truth spoken aloud may never go away, the sexual appeal of the memory doesn't seem to go away either.

There can be an odd contradiction of emotions here for the submissive - abhoring the experience while in it, yet missing the emotional turmoil when the pressure is removed. And, as you suggested earlier, people can be taught to crave it.