[ARCHIVE][Alpha] Dev Talk

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When you make money with your project you can finally pay your beta testers here on milovana.

[basim]

Hello everyone,

I do appreciate the discussion that is coming up. And I'm pleased to read your shared thoughts.

First of all let me ask a question:
No one would even think of complaining when the baker wants money for his bread. So why should I not charge for my work?

I had hopes. When I was close to let the public know about Archive I did want do make it free at all time. I wanted people to to be fully free of choice if they pay me something. When they like what I do and want to show me their gratitude they could donate a bit. But the time went by and I had to realize two things:

First, most people are not like that. They spend their money on absolut nonsens, because they want it so bad. Even if they have to pay for it. But donating? Give away their money when no one would judge them if they don't? But It's hard to blame them for it. It's a natural instinct. You always try to get something the most cheap and lazy way. That's a question in efficiency and survival.

The second thing I had to figure is:
I'm working hard and a lot on Archive. Some weeks I do nothing else the whole day. And even when I'm doing something else or I'm lying in my bed and try to sleep, my mind is whis Archive. The problems, features, ideas and the story. I spend so much time thinking about what to do, when and how. To make Archive good, usable, a nice and pleasing experience. In short: I already do work on it like a fulltime job. And that's what the project needs. You can't do this just with some hours a week. If I had done it like that before, Archive would not be here. And If I would do it as of now it would kill the project immediately.

But even if he charged for Wicked Tease, he did create a big manual to how made a personality. I don't know, maybe would slow down even more the creation of more personalities. Without some basic personality to at least test and see how it's works, I don't know if anyone would make a new one.

And TeaseAI is a lot easier to make content than Archive. So the question is, why someone would want to create content for Archive and not for TeaseAI, or GuideMe or even RenPy? And let's not forget about the new AI wave comming in.

So, if you want to charge for that, at least you will need to create a Manual to help people create new content, or no one will even try.

I'm surprised that you are saying any software is easier to use than the editor of Archive. My goal was and is to be easy. To be a software that anyone can start using without huge knowledge in programming or technical understandings. And at the same time be a tool that gives you the opportunity to create advanced and complex story if would want to go deep on it.

Right now I'm not so sure if anyone ever tried. Sure, some of you hit the edit button and took a peek backstage. Maybe even created a new story and placed some nodes. But I don't know of anyone how did and most importanly really TRIED or wanted to. About that experience I gladly would read. I know Archive is far from being perfect. Especially because when I find something logical and simple doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.

But I'm somewhat confused. The tutorial story is still there. It will remain free and editable at any time. And not only can you take a peek on it "How this is made", it also explains it when you play it. And on top of that every node as an info box which explains it's functions.

Nevertheless I do agree with your idea of a manual. That's something I already have on my list. And I know that looking into a more complex story like Archive would give you much more insigth.

But, honestly, at the moment, I'm not sure if anyone want's it. I think the vast majority just wants to consume.

Despite that I still have hopes that a community will form. Apart from being an easy software to use I also wanted Archive to be a bit for every one, very diverse. And that's something I can not achive myself. That's why I made it an open editor anyone could use. Can contribute his piece of story. Sadly do I'm still lacking a key feature reguarding this. You can write your own story, but you can't expand Archives. And that's why I'm not a fan the "paywall" myself.

So, what shall I do? I'm asking all of you? Seriously!

I don't get it.
This means if i buy it then i can use it for a couple weeks and if there are some bugfixes, security updates, etc. i have to buy it again for safety reasons, or does it mean i still get patches and can continue using it just without new features/content?

No, you will not pay for the bug fixes. Even not for smaller updates on the story or features. I would just make it a new period when a huge feature update or story content comes out. And the 3 month are just a guess by now. I would not make them shorter, but more likely expand them. It would depend on the progress.

I know it's somewhat confusing. And don't like it a 100% myself.

But again, what shall I do?

[sblatt]

Hey, as you asked for it I will add my comments.

First, I really like archive and where you are going with it. The only critic I have is that progress seems very slow, but you have my full understanding and patience there!

Second about charging users for the content: I think this step is completely understandable. Yes, there are tons of good people working for free on projects, but in the end the decision remains with every author themselves what direction they want to take it. I think the commercial approach is 100% legit.
Also, abour your comment that people (only) give money if they have to: I would count myself in with those people. I would consider spending for Archive if it was not free.

My main point is about how you would like people to pay. I think the patreon way is overly complicated and also very intransparent and does not reward people that have been with you for a long time. As you mentioned yourself. And how much does Patreon take? 30%? For adding you to their search engine? You can get the same on Steam (I actually don't know how much any of them charges)...
I would prefer a more standard model, like cou get the Engine and a basic version of arcive for free, then you pay X$ for the full version and then Y$ for every DLC. Maybe even make a season pass with guaranteed 4 DLCs, as a cat-in-the-box-Purchase?

I also think your program has HUGE potential. Both archive and the way you described what you want people to do with the engine. But I guess Archive should be the focus of the project for a while, as it's what will pay your bills.

Cheers, and thank you for your work!

[chess8]

First of all let me ask a question:
No one would even think of complaining when the baker wants money for his bread. So why should I not charge for my work?

This is ridiculus.
Comparing a bread with software . Anyway if you wanna stick to this:
Your idea is like buying a bread and get a slice, next month you have to buy the whole bread again for another slice.
Do you really think that is great idea?
Let's compare it with some more realistic stuff:
You buy a game/software/app on Steam/Epic/App-store. It is not finished (Early Access, Beta, whatever you wanna call it).
A few months later you wanna check about the developement progress and you have to buy it again!
How many would complain about something like that? Shitstorm incoming

I had hopes. When I was close to let the public know about Archive I did want do make it free at all time. I wanted people to to be fully free of choice if they pay me something. When they like what I do and want to show me their gratitude they could donate a bit. But the time went by and I had to realize two things:

First, most people are not like that. They spend their money on absolut nonsens, because they want it so bad. Even if they have to pay for it. But donating? Give away their money when no one would judge them if they don't? But It's hard to blame them for it. It's a natural instinct. You always try to get something the most cheap and lazy way. That's a question in efficiency and survival.

No one would complain about buying for a reasonable price. Did you ever considered something like Kickstarter? People spend tons of money there and sometimes they get....nothing.

I'm surprised that you are saying any software is easier to use than the editor of Archive. My goal was and is to be easy. To be a software that anyone can start using without huge knowledge in programming or technical understandings. And at the same time be a tool that gives you the opportunity to create advanced and complex story if would want to go deep on it.

Right now I'm not so sure if anyone ever tried. Sure, some of you hit the edit button and took a peek backstage. Maybe even created a new story and placed some nodes. But I don't know of anyone how did and most importanly really TRIED or wanted to. About that experience I gladly would read. I know Archive is far from being perfect. Especially because when I find something logical and simple doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.

But I'm somewhat confused. The tutorial story is still there. It will remain free and editable at any time. And not only can you take a peek on it "How this is made", it also explains it when you play it. And on top of that every node as an info box which explains it's functions.

I think he might have messed it up a bit. There is no need to learn a scripting lang, or syntax or even install 3rd party software like Notepad++ or VSCode.

But, honestly, at the moment, I'm not sure if anyone want's it. I think the vast majority just wants to consume.

Do you want to produce your own TV show or just watch some Netflix? That brings me to another point. More about this later*

Despite that I still have hopes that a community will form. Apart from being an easy software to use I also wanted Archive to be a bit for every one, very diverse. And that's something I can not achive myself. That's why I made it an open editor anyone could use. Can contribute his piece of story. Sadly do I'm still lacking a key feature reguarding this. You can write your own story, but you can't expand Archives. And that's why I'm not a fan the "paywall" myself.

A larger community will form if it get known to a wider audience.
It will never ever be a bit for everyone. Each human beeing is different and you can't reach them all. Thats why people create TeaseAI Personalities, Teases, Software in general. That's why you created Archive.

So, what shall I do? I'm asking all of you? Seriously!

But again, what shall I do?

I know you want some money. Which is totally fine. Let's get back to your first question.
Netflix you pay monthy for a shitload of content.
Subscribe Netflix and they offer only a single show a new episode each month. You can watch each episode infinitely.

Paying a bakery monthly for free bread, but only a single kind which get spiced up a bit each month?!
Buying a bakery flatrate and they would offer a vareity of hundrets of different breads, cakes and so on.

What do you offer? A single Story which get more content every month.
What of this examples would work well?

I'm sorry but i can't explain it better.


* What if you put Archive on Itch for like 10 bucks for the lowest tier (not that it's worth the price in it's current state**)? You said ppl should pay at least 1$/month. Let's say you give some discount for 12 months payment on patreon, that should sum up in ~10$ for a full year of developement. You do not lock the story, but delay the release of a new version to the lower tiers. The ones wo are desperate to consume are more likely to get new constant earlier, others might just pay more to support you and the rest will just have to wait a few weeks more.

** In it's current state it's only worth like 3-5$ it's missing some basic features like sound and such. Storywise you should add basic stuff to each kink you listed. Something simple like 'Guess the Time' would be enough. Then it is easy worth 10$ or more.

[basim]

Hello,

as this discussion runs now one more than one plattform I'll condense my answers into one. Please forgive me, I spend a lot of time writing these days. Still do I hope to catch every of your aspects.

First of all, I would like to thank you. For your time and the answers. The project Archive is something close to my heart and the usage of it as well. It's not like I dream of being rich. I just want it to be good and a pleasant place to spend time. For you and me as a user. And to be like that it needs a lot of attention. Which I could only spend on while earning money with it. The second thing behind it, I always wanted to make games. About 15 years ago I began learn scripting to start with that dream. I had ups and downs, but now I feel like finally being able to do it as a job. And, to be honest, I already work on it like a full time job. At least if no "real job" disctracts me from it. And that's what I desperately want to change, get distracted by other jobs because I have to get money.

I would like to emphasize again that reguardless what kind of payment I come up with in the end, I will not forget about those people who did help me or already have been a patron in the past.


Ok, easy things first:
I will rename the software. Not the story or the name of her. This will remain "Archive" (Spoiler: If you don't like it, stay calm, you will be able to change her name later on in the story). I think separating both will help to get rip of the confusion of what the software is. I guess by now most of the time a new user thinks of it as only a game. Futhermore, as some of you pointed out, is Archive maybe a nice name but also a hard to find one. When you type it in in any search engine you will find anything but the software. I'm in the middle of this process and it has my highes priority. Archive begins to catch attention as people start to talk about it. I have tu hurry.

Now to the hard one, the payment:
I'd like to add one sentence on my bread example: I just wanted to point out that you would not ask the baker if you can have the bread for free. That's all. It was not my intend to link my pay mechanism to a bakers one. I'm sorry if that lead to confusions. I also was emotional involved and did not feel the greatest in the last days. But it's fine now! ;)

Ok. Hence I have a story and an editor, it's not easy to come up with an all-in-one solution. And I want it to be fair, for you and me. I'm afraid that a one-time-payment like "buy a game" will not work. Even if I have success with the software I'm not in a market where I can expect hundreds of thousands of copies. It's a niche. And a niche for both of us. You as a user, where you have to pay more in comparison to a mainstream product. And me as a developer that will not earn a lot.

I've though about the payment mechanism for a long time now. And nearly non stop the last days. I read all your comments. And I agree to most of your ideas and thougths. I figure the most fair, easy to use and most advantageous for the software is to make it all free to use, but Patrons get it earlier. I did consider it in the past, but I was afraid of piracy. Some one who leaks a new version right away when it comes out. But I have the same problem when using codes. My main reason behind that pay mechanism I presented you last week was to be able to change codes from time to time. So if a code got leaked I can change it and make it invalid. But I guess reguardless of what I'm doing there is always a way to get "hacked". No system is unhackable, right?

So, back to "it's free" but Patrons get it earlier. I think this is the most easy way for everyone. And long term also attractive. I guess, to be like that is an important part. To have extra's for those who do support it. And not just with money. That's why I like to keep one exception to the "free". The ability to lock the edit mode and some benefits linked to it i'd like to keep as extras.

And I want to start with handing out extras right away. For all of you who helped me by testing the software and gave me feedback. I'd like to give you access to the patron version without being one. But without it becoming too complicated I can only do that if you are on Archives discord server or join it. I will create an exclusive channel over there to patrons & testers only in wich I will post the latest download links. If you like to, join the server and send me here on milovana an pm with your discord name.

All of this being said please feel still free to criticise and suggest things. It will take me some days to get all of that in place. And only if I find a new software name soon. That will be the most difficult task. :)

Have a nice weekend!

[sklavephilipp]

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There is an error in the log file at the end of the session:
init VAR to live pool: ArchiveError - 5ba2e9aa-2351-44d1-b34c-1bcb2b60951f
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But I'm not sure that this is really an error or just a counter.

Version ARCHIVE v0.3.005b

[sklavephilipp]

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Webrequest for download send! Try load: https://ocdn012.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2022/01/10322322/bdsmlr-10322322-HnP1gcaWMi.jpg
Catalog local Media! : bdsmlr-10322322-HnP1gcaWMi.jpg
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Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
current asset name: LikeToAdd
current asset guid: 6c0f7ddf-41e8-4545-a9cc-0198346bce1e
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Main > LikeToAdd
Reading.. > PC Main > ShowAll1-
Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
Reading.. > PC Main > shemale
Reading.. > PC Main > Variable Title
do the var mod
KinkShemale mod result: set to: -4
Reading.. > PC Main > DefaultAnswers
Reading.. > PC Placehold > Fork Title
Reading.. > PC Placehold > Fork Title
current asset name: NewToMe
current asset guid: 76939fcb-ef76-4958-be86-dcdd8d040805
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Placehold > NewToMe
Reading.. > PC Placehold > Main Exit
Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
current asset name: AddAnother
current asset guid: 6be7814b-ccc8-4287-a465-826797839c12
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Main > AddAnother
Reading.. > PC Main > ShowAll1-
Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
Reading.. > PC Main > Next
Default Tag Action called -> Nothing to do
Reading.. > PC Main > ChooseAnother
current asset name: Uhhm
current asset guid: 8ff799a0-4b3d-4a66-8fd2-2df7665c337b
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Main > Uhhm
Reading.. > PC Main > ModCycles
do the var mod
PicCatCicles mod result: -1
Reading.. > PC Main > CheckCyclesFor0
Reading.. > PC Main > Z-PCMainTrys
do the var mod
Z-PCMainTrys mod result: set to: 20
current asset name: ArchivePicks
current asset guid: 8e2a0523-43de-42bc-8d2f-34bb2261dfe6
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Main > ArchivePicks
Reading.. > PC Main > HasTag
Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
current asset name: HowAboutThis
current asset guid: 887eafb5-efe0-4cd7-8e89-6ed52900bec2
current asset page count: 1
Reading.. > PC Main > HowAboutThis
Reading.. > PC Main > ShowAll1-
Reading.. > PC Main > Fork Title
LoadImageFromURL trys loading: https://cdn05.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2019/03/46482/bdsmlr-46482-4gPmv6LEfo.jpg

Another Error I found in the Log File:

ERROR: Var(s) to compare is null -> using false end
Reading.. > XKT Anna > CheckBoy
Reading.. > XKT Anna > CheckTrans
ERROR: Var(s) to compare is null -> using false end


Is it possible to get timestamps in the logfile and maybe the textlines from Archive?
I think that would make it more easy to determine where the error occurred