There's also the greed of those who want something for nothing, especially when someone else is paying for it.CumScream wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:12 am
One big (huge) con that seems to be missed from discussion so far, is greed.
The Great Monetization Discussion
Moderator: andyp
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
- Why do you like/dislike the idea of authors monetizing their work?
I neither like nor dislike it.
- Are there legal issues? Moral issues?
If there are, IMO most of the same issues likely apply to free content also.
- What positive/negative effect could monetization have on the community and the “art” itself?
If a creator is good, it's a positive thing for them not to be out-of-pocket. The negative side would be mediocre creators trying to jump on the bandwagon.
- Why is this issue controversial and why it evokes such a strong emotion in us?
Many people want something for nothing, and dislike feeling they may be missing out. Others find their whining annoying and childish.
If a user unreasonably posts abuse, they should be invited to leave, just as any other form of abuse. Nobody is forcing them to pay, but they are forcing their whining onto others.
How can we fix this mess
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
The analogy doesn't quite work, as the big-budget title is based on creating high demand, so that millions of tickets pay for it. The small creator trying to recoup costs or put food on the table may be forced to stop production. In both cases, quality may be high or mediocre (just look at how many theater movies get trashed by review sites), and the customer has a choice whether to pay or go watch something else instead.samfishercarl wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:28 am [ns and intrinsic trust.
:
going into a theater and paying $20 to view a film with a budget with tens or hundreds millions of dollars...
VS.
paying for a file....
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
i mainly was talking about paywalls, not only is there a highly chance that what you get isn´t close to the preview that you may saw, if there even was one, there also already are a few examples of people trying to greed, slapping some pmv´s together, putting a beatbar/music from a Cock Hero of another creator onto it and then asking for money...kerkersklave wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 12:12 am Well, do you buy movies, music, books, games etc? I sometimes do. It of course has to be sold via an established platform, there has to be some kind of preview/teaser and comment system like platforms for other content has as well. But if some of my favored cockhero authors would start to sell cockheros somewhere. Lets say something like 10$ for a 1h cockhero I would consider buying that.
If a random guy would sell cockheros without any preview on some shady platform, I of course would not.
If we start to monetize Cock Heros in general, people like this will just show up even more...
On top of that i personally think Cock heros started as a fun project, a hobby and simply should stay this way, doesn´t hurt to ask for donations, doesn´t hurt using patreon for early access, but ultimately Cock Heros should stay free...
Right now there just isn´t enough for real monetization, yes you put work into it, but ultimately the majority of work, aka the scenes used already is done by someone else who isn´t going to get anything out of it...
If we ever get to the point of doing the scenes ourself, then we may can talk about this again xD
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
I don't hate monetization, I also buy digital goods like game music and movies when the economy allows it, and the time and effort the author puts in is worth paying for in return.
But in milovana, this community has been a very creative community since I know it. The author and the audience are gathered together because of the same hobby, but as an audience, I have no right to ask the author to provide the work for free. Yes, I have also tried to donate to support the author, but the language issues and payment method restrictions have hindered me (English is not my strong point, I have always used the help of online translators to browse the community).
Although monetization can intuitively provide authors with economic benefits, for the community, a very detailed standard is needed to define what kind of work can become a charging item. If there is no standardized reference, there will be many shoddy creations. Works appeared as a way to defraud the audience of their money. Then this standard, who will formulate and how to formulate it will be a very difficult problem.
But for monetization, it is a very difficult question to set a price in the first place. The same fee may be too expensive or too cheap in different countries and regions. This is for a community composed of people from many countries and regions. , which is a difficult problem to balance.
In addition, the most serious problem is that, all along, we are using the videos produced by other companies to create, and the copyright belongs to others. In the case of free distribution, if others pursue our legal responsibility, at most we need to delete the works. And apologize, because we did not get profit from the work, but once the method of monetization is adopted, it is a very serious crime in the laws of most countries, and the author is likely to compensate others for the loss, And jail time, which has been mentioned by many, but allow me to say it again because this law is really serious.
So the way I think of is this, open a section, if the author shoots his own videos to make CH and teaser, there is no problem with monetization, so that viewers who are willing to pay can pay to watch without worrying about copyright laws. Although this method will still go back to the two problems of standardization mentioned above and the appearance of shoddy works to cheat money, but at least there is no need to worry about reparations and imprisonment.
I might be wrong in my thinking, I'd love to see my mistakes pointed out.
In the end, I am very grateful to the authors for their contributions, which made me understand and like CH, and come to this community to become a member of this community in a language that I am not good at. I also thank those who are willing to read my comments. , because online translations are likely to cause discomfort in their reading
But in milovana, this community has been a very creative community since I know it. The author and the audience are gathered together because of the same hobby, but as an audience, I have no right to ask the author to provide the work for free. Yes, I have also tried to donate to support the author, but the language issues and payment method restrictions have hindered me (English is not my strong point, I have always used the help of online translators to browse the community).
Although monetization can intuitively provide authors with economic benefits, for the community, a very detailed standard is needed to define what kind of work can become a charging item. If there is no standardized reference, there will be many shoddy creations. Works appeared as a way to defraud the audience of their money. Then this standard, who will formulate and how to formulate it will be a very difficult problem.
But for monetization, it is a very difficult question to set a price in the first place. The same fee may be too expensive or too cheap in different countries and regions. This is for a community composed of people from many countries and regions. , which is a difficult problem to balance.
In addition, the most serious problem is that, all along, we are using the videos produced by other companies to create, and the copyright belongs to others. In the case of free distribution, if others pursue our legal responsibility, at most we need to delete the works. And apologize, because we did not get profit from the work, but once the method of monetization is adopted, it is a very serious crime in the laws of most countries, and the author is likely to compensate others for the loss, And jail time, which has been mentioned by many, but allow me to say it again because this law is really serious.
So the way I think of is this, open a section, if the author shoots his own videos to make CH and teaser, there is no problem with monetization, so that viewers who are willing to pay can pay to watch without worrying about copyright laws. Although this method will still go back to the two problems of standardization mentioned above and the appearance of shoddy works to cheat money, but at least there is no need to worry about reparations and imprisonment.
I might be wrong in my thinking, I'd love to see my mistakes pointed out.
In the end, I am very grateful to the authors for their contributions, which made me understand and like CH, and come to this community to become a member of this community in a language that I am not good at. I also thank those who are willing to read my comments. , because online translations are likely to cause discomfort in their reading
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
If someone's intentions with making CH videos is to be able to put food on their table, they should probably not quit their day jobBlueM00 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:46 pm The small creator trying to recoup costs or put food on the table may be forced to stop production
If you produce a project using using someone else's content -- regardless of how much you have remixed it -- it's immoral to expect any sort of payment for it. Donations, sure, no problem, but paywalls are wrong. If you're not making a creation from someone else's work purely for your own hobby and community enjoyment, you are not doing a moral thing.
It's a completely different situation with for example voice actors (eg gonewildaudio), no one else's content is being used and they deserve to be able to sell their work if desired.
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lolol2
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Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
Even as a very little creator I got asked multiple times if there is any way to pay me or send me any donation.Pseudonym wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:02 pm - Why do you like/dislike the idea of authors monetizing their work?
- Are there legal issues? Moral issues?
I always refused this mainly because the legal issues. I also don't wanted to charge people for content that is 80% "stolen" too.
This forum started with only free content years ago, so I can understand that there is a resistance when a small group tries to monetize there content.
I'm still wondered but love that this site is even possible and not took down by porn industry because copyright stuff.
So we should appreciate that... starting to make money out of this here could bring up eyes we don't want on us.
That milovana is completly ad free is also part of this. I would also not directly pay for any content here, supporting creators over patreon etc. is something different.
On the other site, if people think they want to make money... yeah why not, nothing bad about this, the most content here is hell of a work... but then I would like to see possibilities for donations like patreon etc.
Otherwise if people only want to sell there videos and only use the forum for advertising there content, maybe they should look out for another platform, milovana isn't a selling forum. <- my opinion
My thoughts about this... but also opened to read other opinions, so thanks for this thread!
My creations:
- Spoiler: show
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throwawayacct
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Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
Monetization is complicated further by determining or gatekeeping creators while endorsing others.
RealTouchScripts forum went south pretty quickly because of such actions. A lot of users and legal jurisdictions as well have problems with loli and shota, violent content, and other laws on morality that can/are used arbitrarily against not just creators but the sites where content is posted or hosted.
By staying in the "not-monetized" category, Milovana has been able to stay at an arms length of the pitfalls and real issues, but once transactions (not donations) take place, the cover gets blown.
Digital creators have to understand that some asshole in a semi-anonymous forum who gets their hands on their product, *will* invariably post it on a tube or streaming site. Yes, it's wrong, yes it's shitty, no it shouldn't happen. But I'll put $ down that this last Supermassive film - as an example - is going to get posted elsewhere pretty quickly if only out of spite by some entitled jerkface.
And really that's the gist of it - entitlement. We've had the internet for how long now? And through those decades, more and more content pops up as "free", more and more streaming, piracy, and sharing sites propagate and fill in the places shut down like a digital Whack-A-Mole. We as persons of the internet have had practically unfettered access to whatever we want to consume.
And that has changed people's behaviors and attitudes to a point where many feel they are entitled to free viewing of whatever they can think up (yes including CP and definitely illegal/illicit stuff, violence, rape, etc). And the most fervent defenders of this entitlement will pile on and shout down anyone who dares question their access - and sometimes supported by moderators more concerned with decorum, banning or silencing a person who dissents rather than addressing the content issues.
Reassembling copy-written content into new mixes is still using someone else's work that has presumably been paid for, presumably actors have been compensated and the distro network gets their slice too. Clearly that creator's skill and talent to make this content new, better, or rearranged stylistically is worth something, so I don't really have a fixed opinion on whether they *ought* to be compensated, only just want to point out that this is a complex issue tying in copyright issues as well as exposing a strain of entitlement that haunts digital creation.
If a creator wants to monetize, that's their business - yet this site specifically may not be the right vehicle beyond "hey I did a thing" and link to it. And a community ought to be part of the system of getting material taken down that a creator has expressly opted out of sharing freely - I've sent notes to a couple who have put these big, well-executed films out there only to have some fuckass post it on Spankbang days later and unattributed.
RealTouchScripts forum went south pretty quickly because of such actions. A lot of users and legal jurisdictions as well have problems with loli and shota, violent content, and other laws on morality that can/are used arbitrarily against not just creators but the sites where content is posted or hosted.
By staying in the "not-monetized" category, Milovana has been able to stay at an arms length of the pitfalls and real issues, but once transactions (not donations) take place, the cover gets blown.
Digital creators have to understand that some asshole in a semi-anonymous forum who gets their hands on their product, *will* invariably post it on a tube or streaming site. Yes, it's wrong, yes it's shitty, no it shouldn't happen. But I'll put $ down that this last Supermassive film - as an example - is going to get posted elsewhere pretty quickly if only out of spite by some entitled jerkface.
And really that's the gist of it - entitlement. We've had the internet for how long now? And through those decades, more and more content pops up as "free", more and more streaming, piracy, and sharing sites propagate and fill in the places shut down like a digital Whack-A-Mole. We as persons of the internet have had practically unfettered access to whatever we want to consume.
And that has changed people's behaviors and attitudes to a point where many feel they are entitled to free viewing of whatever they can think up (yes including CP and definitely illegal/illicit stuff, violence, rape, etc). And the most fervent defenders of this entitlement will pile on and shout down anyone who dares question their access - and sometimes supported by moderators more concerned with decorum, banning or silencing a person who dissents rather than addressing the content issues.
Reassembling copy-written content into new mixes is still using someone else's work that has presumably been paid for, presumably actors have been compensated and the distro network gets their slice too. Clearly that creator's skill and talent to make this content new, better, or rearranged stylistically is worth something, so I don't really have a fixed opinion on whether they *ought* to be compensated, only just want to point out that this is a complex issue tying in copyright issues as well as exposing a strain of entitlement that haunts digital creation.
If a creator wants to monetize, that's their business - yet this site specifically may not be the right vehicle beyond "hey I did a thing" and link to it. And a community ought to be part of the system of getting material taken down that a creator has expressly opted out of sharing freely - I've sent notes to a couple who have put these big, well-executed films out there only to have some fuckass post it on Spankbang days later and unattributed.
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
On the plus side,
LBRY.com "does to publishing what Bitcoin did to money."
https://lbry.com/
They have a built-in way for publishers to charge for downloads from their blockchain, somewhat like an NFT. I don't know that much about it, but at an overview level it looks like a model CH creators could use.
On the minus side,
Distributing compilations of other people's work IN ANY WAY without their permission violates Western-style copyright law, even if you paid for the clips, and even if you do not charge money to your viewers. The "fair use" exemption does not help, as it refers only to brief clips inside your own original content, such as a podcast of you reviewing or critiquing porn movies with 30-second clips in between 5 or 10 minutes of you talking. (No, I am not a lawyer, just telling you what I have learned over the years and is pretty easy to verify by Googling.)
Every Cock Hero I have ever seen is a wall-to-wall violation, composed entirely of porn that the Cock Hero creator did not produce, even if the CH creator bought his own copy of that porn. The only way around this is to use content that is licensed for free distribution (like free-use clip art as opposed to paid or personal-use-only clip art) or to negotiate with a studio to make CH of their porn and probably share revenue with them. There would be lawyers and stuff.
In practice, free sharing of clips tends to HELP the studio by serving as free marketing, so this entire legal mentality is out of the pre-digital dark ages. Studios should be thrilled to see clips of their best work included in the compilations that become Cock Heroes and maybe even encourage this by releasing specialized content or tools. Instead, as we all know, they file takedown requests against Cock Heroes on Pornhub or Spankbang, though thankfully they don't seem to sue creators since I guess they know there is no CH revenue stream worth recovering in court.
It is different, though, when someone shares your ENTIRE work, or huge portions of it, for free. It really rips off your ability to make a living, whether you are a porn studio or a CH creator. Our copyright regime is still grappling with digital content and all of these issues, while we amateur rhythmic strokers are stuck helplessly in the middle. (Is this whole scene an elaborate "LawDom" production? Do we live in an unseen Cock Hero matrix... teased with never-quite-legal content... while we strain for a release from this burden...)
Also on the minus (for creators), anything can end up in a free torrent, even if it started out on a blockchain. The anarchists have the upper hand! (While their lower hand squeezes their balls...)
Any foolproof business model for digital video has to thrive on free distribution. Radio and TV went with advertising, which I doubt any of us want in CH (but how do we watch most of our Porn? Free tube sites with ads!). Solve this one, and you're the next billionaire. Porn studios still make plenty of money now, even with torrenting, probably because a lot of people aren't familiar/comfortable with torrenting and/or it isn't always easy to find what you're looking for in a torrent. The non-torrenters are funding the torrenters. But that won't work so well in the Cock Hero world, where torrents are all but traditional.
The best options I can see right now:
- voluntary support on a creator's patreon with all content free
- a free "Cock Hero tube" ad-supported site that is stable, performant, and not too spammy (it's been tried...)
Good luck! And stroke with gratitude that our niche persists.
(Sorry, I know I overlapped content in some other posts, and a few others got posted while I was writing. This is a long thread, so I didn't try to sort out who else had said what or exactly which posts I might be replying to. If you read the whole thing, more power to you!)
LBRY.com "does to publishing what Bitcoin did to money."
https://lbry.com/
They have a built-in way for publishers to charge for downloads from their blockchain, somewhat like an NFT. I don't know that much about it, but at an overview level it looks like a model CH creators could use.
On the minus side,
Distributing compilations of other people's work IN ANY WAY without their permission violates Western-style copyright law, even if you paid for the clips, and even if you do not charge money to your viewers. The "fair use" exemption does not help, as it refers only to brief clips inside your own original content, such as a podcast of you reviewing or critiquing porn movies with 30-second clips in between 5 or 10 minutes of you talking. (No, I am not a lawyer, just telling you what I have learned over the years and is pretty easy to verify by Googling.)
Every Cock Hero I have ever seen is a wall-to-wall violation, composed entirely of porn that the Cock Hero creator did not produce, even if the CH creator bought his own copy of that porn. The only way around this is to use content that is licensed for free distribution (like free-use clip art as opposed to paid or personal-use-only clip art) or to negotiate with a studio to make CH of their porn and probably share revenue with them. There would be lawyers and stuff.
In practice, free sharing of clips tends to HELP the studio by serving as free marketing, so this entire legal mentality is out of the pre-digital dark ages. Studios should be thrilled to see clips of their best work included in the compilations that become Cock Heroes and maybe even encourage this by releasing specialized content or tools. Instead, as we all know, they file takedown requests against Cock Heroes on Pornhub or Spankbang, though thankfully they don't seem to sue creators since I guess they know there is no CH revenue stream worth recovering in court.
It is different, though, when someone shares your ENTIRE work, or huge portions of it, for free. It really rips off your ability to make a living, whether you are a porn studio or a CH creator. Our copyright regime is still grappling with digital content and all of these issues, while we amateur rhythmic strokers are stuck helplessly in the middle. (Is this whole scene an elaborate "LawDom" production? Do we live in an unseen Cock Hero matrix... teased with never-quite-legal content... while we strain for a release from this burden...)
Also on the minus (for creators), anything can end up in a free torrent, even if it started out on a blockchain. The anarchists have the upper hand! (While their lower hand squeezes their balls...)
Any foolproof business model for digital video has to thrive on free distribution. Radio and TV went with advertising, which I doubt any of us want in CH (but how do we watch most of our Porn? Free tube sites with ads!). Solve this one, and you're the next billionaire. Porn studios still make plenty of money now, even with torrenting, probably because a lot of people aren't familiar/comfortable with torrenting and/or it isn't always easy to find what you're looking for in a torrent. The non-torrenters are funding the torrenters. But that won't work so well in the Cock Hero world, where torrents are all but traditional.
The best options I can see right now:
- voluntary support on a creator's patreon with all content free
- a free "Cock Hero tube" ad-supported site that is stable, performant, and not too spammy (it's been tried...)
Good luck! And stroke with gratitude that our niche persists.
(Sorry, I know I overlapped content in some other posts, and a few others got posted while I was writing. This is a long thread, so I didn't try to sort out who else had said what or exactly which posts I might be replying to. If you read the whole thing, more power to you!)
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
I come from a very different community than most milovana members. I spend most of my time on places like DLSite and F95. I have purchased many porn products from DL and, on top of that, I also carried over that support of creators here to milovana. I have paid small amounts to creators like Diogaoo(hero corruption creator) and Watchitdry (decadence island creator). I never regretted those purchases, and despite the contents being not as original as something that you might find out of DL, I had way more content to sift through with those creators than many of the games ive purchased in the past.
When it comes to monetization, i feel like most reasonable people on the internet can sniff out a scam, we see them on F95 patreon startups a lot. I dont get on here as often as the other forum, so feel free to enliten me if im wrong, but since being here, I havent seen any creators ask for compensation that wasnt unreasonable for the offer.
In the case of Diogaoo, they have set up a typical H-game patreon system that you would expect in most cases for successful creators. Their commitment to monthy updates to a game so as to build a mountain of content in one spot is exactly why i supported them. I'm guessing here, so again correct me if im wrong, but many of milovana's members are far more supportive of Diogaoo because he also releases paid content for free 1 month later. Something like that is Very generous based on typical hgame patreons I've seen. if they were modeled more aggressively, would people still be supportive of it? like if all the content past 1.0 was paywalled behind the 10$ purchase? I would guess they would get a mountain of backlash, which leads into the next creator i supported(and still do from time to time)...
Watchitdry(WID) Has been controversial on these forums for some time. I understand that when they started they were seen as a scam with little to no content then. but nowadays you can do a one month payment of 25$, and recieve well over 100 hours of content. they are a farcry from their start, and I personnally feel like most of the critisim WID get today is unwarrented. WID's work has always been very high quality from the very first Decadence Island Maze game they made here, and while they have swapped around road maps from time to time, they still deliver on that quality content. They built an entire world around CH and use that template to make fun and engaging story based CHs on the same level as Canto and Island (in my opinion). That being said, not everyone can afford 25$ a month, but the counter to that is you dont have to spend that much each month anymore. they set up an entire archive linked to their patreon so that with that initial purchase, that 100+ hours of content, is all up for grabs. Then from there you can cancel if you want, and maybe 6 months down the line do it again when there is much more new stuff to try.
There is no perfect answer to monetization, many active people here probably dont pay for any porn at all. Thats a pretty big step to take, same with how many people religously dont pay for mobile games. but at the end of the day, I love content creation, I love story based CHs like CH Canto, Island, and Decadence Island. I love the webtease creators who run their patreons with regular updates. And I believe in compensation for those works, because at the end of the day, they are making original content with those mediums that they borrow from.
P.S. CH Beili Part 2 is likely going to be a monetized work, the creator of that CH has released multiple new videos that they do monetize, and is currently working on part 2 of beili now as well as their first RPG. and yes I intend to support it if they do decide to monetize it, Especially since china is going through an economic crisis right now.
When it comes to monetization, i feel like most reasonable people on the internet can sniff out a scam, we see them on F95 patreon startups a lot. I dont get on here as often as the other forum, so feel free to enliten me if im wrong, but since being here, I havent seen any creators ask for compensation that wasnt unreasonable for the offer.
In the case of Diogaoo, they have set up a typical H-game patreon system that you would expect in most cases for successful creators. Their commitment to monthy updates to a game so as to build a mountain of content in one spot is exactly why i supported them. I'm guessing here, so again correct me if im wrong, but many of milovana's members are far more supportive of Diogaoo because he also releases paid content for free 1 month later. Something like that is Very generous based on typical hgame patreons I've seen. if they were modeled more aggressively, would people still be supportive of it? like if all the content past 1.0 was paywalled behind the 10$ purchase? I would guess they would get a mountain of backlash, which leads into the next creator i supported(and still do from time to time)...
Watchitdry(WID) Has been controversial on these forums for some time. I understand that when they started they were seen as a scam with little to no content then. but nowadays you can do a one month payment of 25$, and recieve well over 100 hours of content. they are a farcry from their start, and I personnally feel like most of the critisim WID get today is unwarrented. WID's work has always been very high quality from the very first Decadence Island Maze game they made here, and while they have swapped around road maps from time to time, they still deliver on that quality content. They built an entire world around CH and use that template to make fun and engaging story based CHs on the same level as Canto and Island (in my opinion). That being said, not everyone can afford 25$ a month, but the counter to that is you dont have to spend that much each month anymore. they set up an entire archive linked to their patreon so that with that initial purchase, that 100+ hours of content, is all up for grabs. Then from there you can cancel if you want, and maybe 6 months down the line do it again when there is much more new stuff to try.
There is no perfect answer to monetization, many active people here probably dont pay for any porn at all. Thats a pretty big step to take, same with how many people religously dont pay for mobile games. but at the end of the day, I love content creation, I love story based CHs like CH Canto, Island, and Decadence Island. I love the webtease creators who run their patreons with regular updates. And I believe in compensation for those works, because at the end of the day, they are making original content with those mediums that they borrow from.
P.S. CH Beili Part 2 is likely going to be a monetized work, the creator of that CH has released multiple new videos that they do monetize, and is currently working on part 2 of beili now as well as their first RPG. and yes I intend to support it if they do decide to monetize it, Especially since china is going through an economic crisis right now.
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noblepaladin
- Explorer
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Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
Personally, I think it is a bad idea for everybody involved. Legally, there is the copyright issue that people have mentioned already. But don't forget that there is also the issue of being a porn distributor. A big porn studio would have documentation that the actors/models are of legal age and that the filming and distribution is consensual. It is a huge tail risk to sell porn as the money trail makes it easy to identify you. If you only accept crypto, you lose out on more than half of your potential customer base and it basically makes this discussion entirely moot because you won't be getting much money out of it either way.
If you are posting stuff for free, it's difficult to figure out who you are and to prove that you actually made it. It is difficult to prove damages. And there is an argument for fair use or that you simply didn't know that the work was copyrighted (as video clips are reposted everywhere with a lot of the watermarks and warnings stripped off, nobody knows where you got it). That's why porn companies only file takedown notices.
Another issue is that monetization can destroy the community. I know a lot of the Deep Faking community hates the MrDeepFakes site (which is basically the most well known Deep Faking community as it is linked to by the software). The entire site is basically full of short promo clips posted by creators trying to get you to buy Deep Fake porn. Their forum members have become very protective and people don't share facesets or models like they used to do because they don't want more competition coming in and taking a piece of the pie. I think that community and the Deep Faking technology would be better off if they kept monetization off the site.
If you are posting stuff for free, it's difficult to figure out who you are and to prove that you actually made it. It is difficult to prove damages. And there is an argument for fair use or that you simply didn't know that the work was copyrighted (as video clips are reposted everywhere with a lot of the watermarks and warnings stripped off, nobody knows where you got it). That's why porn companies only file takedown notices.
Another issue is that monetization can destroy the community. I know a lot of the Deep Faking community hates the MrDeepFakes site (which is basically the most well known Deep Faking community as it is linked to by the software). The entire site is basically full of short promo clips posted by creators trying to get you to buy Deep Fake porn. Their forum members have become very protective and people don't share facesets or models like they used to do because they don't want more competition coming in and taking a piece of the pie. I think that community and the Deep Faking technology would be better off if they kept monetization off the site.
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
m8 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:58 pm If you produce a project using using someone else's content -- regardless of how much you have remixed it -- it's immoral to expect any sort of payment for it.
Really? Music artists and DJs have been doing this for generations. Yet you don't find it immoral for someone to take a ripped movie and remix that for free. No, you just find it immoral for someone to pay for content and then charge you for their remix.
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MrGoGoGirl
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Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
There is too much free porn on the internet for me to ever pay for it, especially if I can't even preview it like the video discussed in the other thread right now.
Also, I am not going to share any personal details, and especially not my financial details with somebody who creates jerk off videos.
I think the discussion is absurd. If you want to make a video for Milovana, do it because you like it.
If you want to make money with it, create a marketing plan and promote the video.
It's okay to ask for donations or release it early on patreon, it's absurd to have a thread and being angry with users who are used to free content on a free content forum, when you are the only guy asking for money.
Also, I am not going to share any personal details, and especially not my financial details with somebody who creates jerk off videos.
I think the discussion is absurd. If you want to make a video for Milovana, do it because you like it.
If you want to make money with it, create a marketing plan and promote the video.
It's okay to ask for donations or release it early on patreon, it's absurd to have a thread and being angry with users who are used to free content on a free content forum, when you are the only guy asking for money.
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
More monetized blockchain file sharing:zebbg69 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:47 pm LBRY.com "does to publishing what Bitcoin did to money."
https://lbry.com/
They have a built-in way for publishers to charge for downloads from their blockchain, somewhat like an NFT. I don't know that much about it, but at an overview level it looks like a model CH creators could use.
https://filecoin.io/
"is a decentralized storage network designed to store humanity's most important information."
This is a professional storage model of decentralized hosts. You pay money to the host for putting your files on the network, and you make money when people download. Nothing is free but prices are (allegedly) very low. I am certain they would respond to takedown requests, but I think the files would still be on IPFS but no longer monetized, and no longer "seeded" by that host so you might have to run your own IPFS node to make sure the file was available.
For that matter, I should have mentioned IPFS to begin with.
https://ipfs.tech/
"IPFS powers the Distributed Web... peer-to-peer hypermedia protocol"
The big picture is similar to torrenting, so it may not offer obvious advantages to milovanans. My impression after some high-level reading a few years ago is that it is like "next generation" torrenting, with a more solid infrastructure, but it's the same model in which files are available from other users who choose to run nodes ("seed") because they want to share those files with the network. There is no monetization built in, but it allows for add-ons like filecoin to do that.
Re: The Great Monetization Discussion
Really only one generation. Before 90s-era digital tech, musicians did not lift recorded content verbatim. It was extremely controversial when rappers began to do this, and most of us saw it as plagiarism at the time and very low-rent. Attitudes have changed with culture and the success of the genre, as artists and fans have experienced the artistic merit in it.BlueM00 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:12 amm8 wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:58 pm If you produce a project using using someone else's content -- regardless of how much you have remixed it -- it's immoral to expect any sort of payment for it.
Really? Music artists and DJs have been doing this for generations.
On the legal end, the music industry already had a mature, sophisticated model for revenue-sharing in place, allowing musicians to freely cover each other's songs with little friction, and it adjusted easily to monetizing 90s-era lifts and remixes. The three major music "unions" ASCAP, BMI, and... the other one... will register your song (you have to pay to join) and then charge other artists royalties for any use of your song, and you get paid every quarter. This even covers radio "performances" when your song is played on the air without alteration. If you own a bar, you have to pay ASCAP to play music of your choice on your own PA to your customers, even if you purchased the record, which is why so many bars just play the radio--your "audience" of customers makes it a "public performance." The union does all the grunt-work of figuring out who owes what to whom, and of course small-time operators fall through the cracks. Again, the legal framework lags way behind reality, but we are all limping along with it.