On relationships, society and self-pleasure with CH / RLGL

[Alex69]

Life is a circle, I refer you to my namesake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvrySwhZrQ

I live my life alone. For most people, that is tantamount to sadness and misery. Even amazing Cock Hero creators like fragrantEmulsion vent occasionally about it (viewtopic.php?p=269466#p269466): "I'd love to find someone to share long lasting emotional and sexual relationship with... I cried over a woman..."

Thanks for the memories. When was this? 2019? Gods! Midgard is so different now. I am so different now! Though I still battle with the serpent and the shadow, I stand on my own legs with an axe I forged myself. I should not have wept for that woman, she sought to use me to satisfy a rift in her life. I could not support her then, and now that I can, I would not dare waste my strength and treasure on her and her bastard son.

I have severe attention issues and probably didn't thoroughly dick your post, but it seems like you are essentially writing a thesis that rationalizes your pain and excuses these feelings by falsifying societal edicts. It is not my place to guide you, but know this: Western society has broken the ring. Rotting in excess, entitled to comfort, abandoning the good Earth that bore us with the Sky-Father's seed.

Do you know the name of the person who grew your food, knit your clothes, built your home? Do you speak to your neighbors?

Blind consumerism is the West's legacy now. This has seeped into our relationships. If you live in a city you are competing with hundreds of thousands of other men to win the attention of a woman. Smart women do not need you to support them either. She doesn't need you to build a house, make tools, hunt, fish, fight off rapist steppe people, or anything. Jeff Bezos does that for her now.

Children are no longer an asset, they are an annoying liability that impacts career growth, wealth generation, and freedom. There is no extended family/tribe to share the burden of raising them. Instead, they are now raised by tablets. The only women who want kids at 20 are kind of crazy, and the ones who don't have kids by 30 are forced to make a choice: kids or career.

As a child of divorce, I think the 50% divorce stat is ultimately because people lie to themselves (and their partners), are incapable of changing, and fail in communicating their needs. My parent's marriage failed ultimately because my father was unable/unwilling to be responsible or make decisions, and he did not pull his weight (in conversation, financially, etc). They loved each other and were sexually compatible, but that wasn't everything.

He re-married to an ultra controlling woman who does not even give him the choice of deciding his own vehicle. Is he happy? No. But he is too afraid of being alone to change that.

He never learned to be a responsible adult, and as a result, once I hit puberty he was incapable of guiding me. This impacted my self esteem significantly and I am only now clawing my way out of this. To put things in perspective, I make more money than he does, even though he is twice my age now. This is... wrong.

I will not fail my children in the way he failed me. For my ancestors will only be reborn through my descendants.

100% agreement with FragrantEmulsion. As you see, I finally gathered courage to post on this controversial thread. It is not always easy to share an unpopular opinion, even behind an anonymous nickname. I think there are necessary changes on our society if we want to keep the same old “family” schemes (marriage and kids), otherwise, it is us who need to change the type of relationships we build, and not choose the old “family” structure, in favor of a more fluid, temporary, liquid (in Bauman’s terminology) society. I’m talking about mid-term relationships of several years without marriage and kids. And, to be honest, this type of relationships are increasing, with the difference that most partners keep having kids despite this, and from there come the problems.

I, contrary to OP (sorry, I haven’t fully read your post, just like Fragrant, I have severe attention issues as well) think porn is far from being the only thing I need. Because it isn’t -only- sex what I want from other people, mainly women, but rather emotional support, companionship, mutual love and affection, and physical contact (which includes hugs and other non sexual contact, as well as sexual contact if there’s a situation for that).

My problem is... Marriage and kids. I don’t need those elements to share my life with a partner, and just like Fragrant said, many times kids are a liability we currently don’t have time for. But generally, most of the women I occasionally meet, those that are still singles in their 30s, don’t conceive a relationship without marriage and kids on the near horizon; and many are almost obsessed with those two elements, to the point that sometimes that’s the only thing that matters to them. And... uhm... let’s say I don’t want those complications in my life.

Let’s be honest, many of the girls I’ve met during my life, when I was younger, were having “short” relationships of less than a year. I see that, in modern society, relationships have a rather short, or maybe medium duration. 2, 3, 4 years... and then, one of the partners (I won’t specify which one because controversial) decides that wants even more. Or gets bored. Then finishes the relationship, usually to start a new relationship after a couple of weeks. That’s the type of relationships I’m seeing lately, and like Zygmunt Bauman explains on the book “Liquid Love”, sadly, this fast paced and highly stimulating world makes us get bored easily of our partners. Yes, I’ve had those types of girlfriend who admitted their relationships only lasted 7, 8 months, maybe a year max.

With that situation, seeing that love is statistically no longer a 18, 20, 25 year long relationship, I refuse to marry and have kids. Sorry, it is a risk I am not willing to take. Given my country’s legislation favoring always one side, I don’t want all those legal issues. So I’ve been looking for simplicity on relationships. However, most women want to meet a partner, not just for company, affection, care and love, but to legally marry and have kids. And I just don’t understand why they especifically want that from the beginning. I would need time, to test the relationship, to see if she’s not only interested in me as just a provider but as a person to be with for many years, and that takes time. Many years of relationship. And sadly, women at their 30s are kinda in a hurry for marriage+kids. I think pressure is a bad counselor in this situations.

However, contrary to what OP says, I don’t think porn could remotely give me what I need, unless I saw women just as sex providers (sorry, that’s not my case, if that was my case, scorts would be an option as well). Porn is porn, and offers a “quick” rush of endorphines, but it doesn’t offer what other humans can (affection, company, touch, smell, conversation, a helping hand, a shoulder to cry...). The closest to that, would be a domestic animal like a dog or a cat, but again, animals aren’t humans, don’t fully understand emotions, and I cannot share my interests with a cat, sadly. Maybe, one day, there will be Artificial Intelligences complex enough to mimic the human behaviour. Until then, I will cope with loneliness while I keep trying luck in the game of love.

[tigrotto]

...but I admit, I did not expect to frighten poor SKaevola so much he wouldn't dare call me by name/handle. I am "the person"...

Let's have a conversation among adults without behaving like this please, ok?
Or I'll lock the thread. You choose.

[Pseudonym]

Ok, let's see if I can get this thread closed with this:

I’ve come in contact with manosphere - specifically with MGTOW ideology about 4 years ago through one innocent Youtube suggestion.

I’ve watched one video, then another and then some more until I ended up on 2 weeks long binge. These videos really resonated with me. I’ve listened to men, sharing their horrible experiences in relationships and marriages, their traumas, their fears, frustrations and hate they felt once they took the “red pill” and seen the reality for what it truly was.
I’ve learned from them about the marriage statistics, hypergamy and most importantly, how women really are. It finally made all sense. I was offered full, all-encompassing explanation of the state of male-female relationships.

And it was unfair.

It made me angry. Really, really angry.


About week after that, I’ve got a call from two of my best female friends. They visited me at my home, as they do from time to time and we drank some wine and talked for hours, as we do.
But this time was different. I was angry. Angry at them. When Anna – one of my friends, started talking about some relationship issues she were going through, I’ve made pretty insensitive comment about her value.

I remember to this day the confused look she gave me. After a long period of complete silence, she asked:

“Where did it come from?”

When I’ve looked into her eyes, I’ve seen a woman that I knew and been friend since middle school. A woman that never-ever, over all these years did anything wrong or hurtful to me. Not a single thing.

I had to ask myself the same question:

“Where did it come from?”



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going back about 8 years before that, I was 21 years old and desperately in love with my first (and last) girlfriend.

The best way to describe her and the relationship in general would be this – Google search for any random article called “10 signs of toxic partner”. She had all 10 of them and some extra sprinkled on top of that for a variety.
I know what you probably think, and don’t worry, I’ve thought about it many times, replaying it all in my head – how much of it was my fault? How much I've hurt her? Was I the bad one? Maybe I'm just overly sensitive and she didn't do anything bad.
I don’t think I’ll ever get to know. So I can’t honestly answer that.

That said, the stuff she did to me and the shit she told me haunts me and fucks with my head to this day. I’ve had my fair share of verbal bullying at school and some of the folks were pretty proficient at it. But none of them came even close to what she was capable of.



One day, after one and half year together, I come to her place after I finished at work.
Is this going to be a good day or a bad day? She seems happy – she’s smiling and hugging me. Maybe it’s going to be fine? Although that never been a reliable way to tell. It can start whenever for no reason at all, and it starts when you least expect it.

And sure enough, I’ve tiptoed around her for a bit until it started.

The shift in the mood was always shockingly sudden and almost surreal. Then come the arguments. Then verbal attacks. Always the same, always out of nowhere.

I never understood - where it was coming from?

I always tried my best to de-escalate, be reasonable or just take the verbal “punches” and be done with it for a while. When I didn’t do my best, we just screamed at each other.

But this time I broke down. There was no way to reason with her, there was no way to escape. I didn’t know what to do anymore. There is this woman I love, screaching at me how disgusted she feels when I’m around her and she didn’t know why and I don’t know what I did wrong and how to fix it. I’ve felt the frustration, that was building over the last year, surging throughout my whole body and turning to rage. It wasn’t just hate, it was full blown state of affect. There was red in front of my eyes. I couldn’t control myself anymore.



And then I slapped her face.

And it was all gone.



All the emotions I felt just a moment before went away.
We stood there for couple of seconds in silence. Her mouth open in disbelief.
Then she returned the favor and gave me about five slaps across my face with all the (surprisingly large) force she could muster in her petite body.
The thing is, what really hurt weren’t the slaps. I didn’t even felt them at that moment.
What hurt the most was that she showed me who I really was. I was the thing I always hated. I was the man who hits women. I wasn’t even a man. I was the disgusting, unlovable piece of shit like she always told me. I’ve hurt her.

I went home and finally broke up with her couple of days later.



About 3 weeks after that, I accepted her offer to meet. I wanted to make things right, apologize for my faults, wish her very best to her future life and stay friends.

We sat down in a pub and the conversation turned to our former relationship. I felt extremely uncomfortable, but she seemed calm and completely unaffected by the topic. Then, she looked me in the eye, smiled and with a matter-of-fact tone said:

“...I was always cheating on you anyways.”


I froze up.

At that moment, I knew she wasn’t kidding or just fucking with me. There were many signs during our relationship, there just never was a full proof. Interestingly, it was her being worried about me cheating, not wanting to let me to parties couple of times. Projection I guess.

Looking back, I should have just stand up at that point, pay my bill and leave with the little self-respect I had left. In fact, I shouldn’t have even agreed on the meeting.

Instead, I’ve just sat there, eyes watering, trying not to break down completely.

And she was smiling.

I don’t know how she did that. She could smear a literal shit right into my face and I would just sit there and take it, completely emasculated. I always let it slide, afraid that if I said something she would get mad again.

I was able to hold my tears then, and the conversation turned to other topics but I felt like there is a shit all over my face for the rest of the evening. We’ve got drunk and left. As we got in front of her apartment building, I was ready to say good night and go home, but she wanted me to go upstairs. I don’t know how many times I said the word “no”, but she was relentless. She wouldn’t let me leave.

Finally, I capitulated and said:
“Alright! But we are not going to fuck, is that clear?”

She laughed and lead me by my hand.
When we got to her apartment, she started hugging and kissing me. I’ve said no repeatedly, and pushed her off. She just smiled and started to undress her clothes, went on the floor, naked, her bare ass up.

“I don’t want to...”

“Just shut up and fuck me!”

“No!”

“Shut up and get your dick hard!”

I really, really didn’t want to do that.



But I did.

I don’t know why.

It was horrifying.



I repressed the memory of that sexual encounter – there are no details left in my mind as of today.

For the next week after that, I was like a body without soul. People asking what the hell happened to me and I wasn’t even able begin to speak about what happened. What would I even tell them? Would they believe me? It was my fault anyways. There was no one else I could blame then me.

I remember how disgusted I was with myself for not being able to say no. I hated myself so much. I wanted to be dead.

I remember wishing that many times in our relationship, during those long nights, when she was peacefully sleeping on her side of the bed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I apologized to Anna for what I’ve said and the conversation between my two friends went on. Although I haven’t contributed much for the rest of the night. My mind was in a different place. I knew something was wrong. I just didn’t know if I have the strength to admit it to myself.


Others might not be willing, or genuinely feel otherwise, but I’ll bite the bullet and say it as it is:

I truly hated women during that 2 week MGTOW period. And I also desperately loved them. There was some debate over this in the thread, but I personally can testify if no one else on this planet, at least I, achieved this confusing and seemingly contradictory state of mind.

Thought I would never admit it back then if you would have asked me.


I knew I have a lot of hate and negative emotions inside of me. And there was a cognitive dissonance that needed to be resolved. After lot of pondering, I’ve arrived at these options:

1) Belittling myself
I could turn the hatred towards myself. Since I’m a terrible person, the things that happened to me were justified, deserved and good. There is nothing wrong with women, but since I’m uniquely bad and unlovable person, every new girlfriend will eventually start despising me like my ex did. The world becomes logical, consistent, predictable and safe place once again.

2) Belittling women
I could continue watching the MGTOW content and indulge on the catharsis it provided to me. Then, since women are terrible people, the things that happened to me are to be expected from them. The world becomes logical, consistent, predictable and safe place once again.


I’ve tried the first one before, and let me tell you - it doesn’t work. Unless you consider clinical depression desirable outcome.

The second one was something new and exciting for me. Shifting the blame on women. The hate I felt was truly intoxicating. And then thinking that other men are just mindless drones that are throwing their lives away in marriages and don’t see what I see. They don’t understand all the societal, cultural and evolutionary factors that are at play here. I’m so much better than them. My choice to stay alone is justified and I don’t have to feel bad about it anymore. I’m not pitiful – they are!



It’s not something I’m proud of, but I really I wanted to keep watching these videos. I guess I’ve already admitted to hitting a woman so there is not much pride remaining to be shed here anyways...
I know it would feel so, so good to feed my hate. All I needed to do was to just not question my cognitive biases and do little bit of rationalization to stop this mental construction of mine from falling apart when contradicted with reality.



As you probably can tell by now, I didn't choose any of these two.

All I can say is - It’s a continuous struggle.

I’m still trying to make sense of all of this. I’ll not pretend that I have the right advice or answer. And after what I’ve just shared, I’m probably not in the position to provide it to others.
But for me, I think that the answer is love. I've chose to believe it.
Loving yourself and loving others.
Not belittling, nor disregarding the negative emotions and pain in yourself and others.
Not putting others down, but lifting yourself and other people up as fragrantEmulsion said.
Understanding that world is often unfair place but there is a beauty to it too.
And that life invariably involves suffering but there is meaning also.



There is nothing necessarily wrong about staying alone, the same way there is nothing necessarily wrong about marrying. Whatever you choose, there will be some people disliking it or feeling personally attacked by your decisions. And it’s fine. We all have different feelings and they are all real and strong.


There is no writing on the sky that says what is the meaning of life.

Life is the ultimate sandbox game. You create and find your own meaning. Sometimes you play it safe, sometimes you go all in, risking it all for a search of greater meaning.
So make your decisions and then reap the benefits and suffering that inevitably comes with it since none of the roads are truly safe and pain-free.
And if that’s not enough, the grass on the other side might seems little greener from time to time.
Sometime it actually is.
Sometime it’s not.
It’s hard to tell.

And then you start laughing about the absurdity, until you find yourself stand in awe, watching the strange and terrifying beauty of it all.




P.S.
Speaking of love – I’ll finally say something I’ve never had the opportunity to say. I've never told about the issues we've had to our friends and I never bad-mouthed you after the breakup. So I think I deserve this for at least once in my life:

Fuck you Daniela! Fuck you for all the fucked up things you’ve said and done to me. I didn’t deserve that!
Last time we’ve bumped at each other on the street a year ago, I had a full blown panic attack for the rest of the day.
You’ve fucked me up real good lady! Real good!

Although...

Even tho you never told me, I have a strong feeling something really bad happened to you when you were a child and I’m starting to think you might have had a bipolar disorder. So I’m sorry for that and wish you well otherwise.

Ok, ok, and I wasn’t the best boyfriend at all times too...

And the nice part of you was nice...

But the “Fuck you!” still stands! :D



P.S.S.
Well, that was strangely therapeutic... I never told the full story to anyone.
Thank you for reading this shit Milovanians. :D

[Alex69]

Thank you for sharing that amazing story, @Pseudonym. And thanks for being so honest about your feelings.

I loved all the plot twists and that would be a cool addition to your videos
Just kidding.

By the way, when you said

There is nothing necessarily wrong about staying alone, the same way there is nothing necessarily wrong about marrying

I don’t think that’s necessarily a binary situation, either alone or married with kids. I still want to think there’s an intermediary state, and there’s a potential partner out there, that isn’t highly influenced by the traditional values of forming a family in the old fashion. I’m still looking for just a “partner” for life. Without all the legal hassle. Maybe I am the wrong one, and maybe one day I’ll realize it is effectively one or the other. We’ll see.

[Pseudonym]

Ok, let's see if I can get this thread closed with this:

Oh - my - fucking - God.

And I speak of Pseudonym, of course - the indisputable God of CHs, not the phony baloney $DEITIES.

I never expected to hear from people like you, man. Yet this thread ended up triggering so many intense responses from so many Milovanians... I am so glad I started it.

And just like your amazing erotic Art, your post is by FAR the best in this thread. I agree - we can close the thread with your comment. Nothing else left to say.

Thank you for saying things that others didn't dare.

Thank you for sharing your soul with us all.

Oh, and... yes: FUCK you, a million times FUCK you, to all the Danielas in this fucked-up world.

Don't feel bad about sharing. Religious people do have one truth in store: confession IS good for the soul.
That's why I did it yesterday - and it turns out that many of us needed that too.

For what it's worth, you are the only God I worship, mate.

You and Frantzo

And Andre. And all the rest!

viewtopic.php?p=318625#p318625

Thank you, man... Thank you.

Yeah, fuck you too edging_bliss.

With love
Pseudonym
(The women beater)

[Caius Prepus]

.
.
Wall of text hits you for 10 000 damages... YOU DIE.

wall-of-text-run-away-13837154357.jpeg (32 KiB) Viewed 2668 times

[kerkersklave]

I don’t think that’s necessarily a binary situation, either alone or married with kids. I still want to think there’s an intermediary state, and there’s a potential partner out there, that isn’t highly influenced by the traditional values of forming a family in the old fashion.

Of course there is something in between and a lot of things all around. Some arrangement appeal to more people than others, but that doesn't really matter. And marriage is basically only a contract for a certain relationship model. What exactly the consequences are varies a lot between countries. Most couples I know marry once they have or plan to have children, not for any traditional reasons, but that is the point, where they know, they will be connected for ever and have to put their resources together for the next 20 years or so. And in this case, it can simplify a lot of things legally, can have certain tax advantages and so on. But there are enough men and women that do not want to have kids, and there are also many interested in all kinds of unconventional relationship models and arrangements.

[3xTripleXXX]

Where I live, couples getting together without marrying and still having kids is actually more common than marriage, though it's a fad that comes and goes. But the government doesn't give tax incentives for being married here. If you're a parent then you have responsibility to your kids and you get some support from the government until the kids are grown, but whether you're married to the other person doesn't matter or not as far as taxes or what you get, so many people don't bother. You get maternal/paternal leave either way, joint custodies if the parents live apart and so on.

I know several people, women and men who never want kids and have taken medical steps to ensure they won't. There's often talk about women's biological clock, but it's very individual whether it's there or not, and you can quickly argue that it's as much familial and societal pressure as it is biological.

This discussion seems to blow right past any lgbtq+ singles or couples, where you'll find male couples wanting kids, female couples not wanting kids, and so on. Just further illustrating that this is very subjective, and trying to generalize all women, or all western women, or all men and so on is a pointless exercise.

Choosing not to want a kid or a relationship is a perfectly valid choice. No one is forced to marry or become a parent in most places, and no one should be forced to that anywhere. In those that do, it's for terrible reasons, typically tied to religion and/or patriarchy.

But just because it's not your experience, don't assume that it's the most common experience or typical.

Toxic partners of any gender is not OK, obviously, and there are toxic people of all genders. A toxic person isn't representative of their whole gender, however. It seems like some people have had some really bad experiences in their past, and obviously that's going to color their perception, but you find all types out there.

The fact that women are paid less, are struggling to make their mark in leadership and STEM and that they don't feel as safe as men is primarily a man problem. My wife got her degree in the same STEM field that I did, and she is very skilled at it. However, both educational and vocational STEM environments are hostile to women on so many levels, and that is a problem that we, as men, need to solve, because the vast majority of time, we're the source of those problems.

Anyway, my wife didn't desire babies above all. Heck, she was the one who suggested the vasectomy first. As I mentioned above, I know several women who have no desire to have kids, and the more options for educated work and equality you have in a society, the more common this is. It's part of the reason all of Europe has a declining birth rate.

When women get to have careers and men take their share of the parenting, it's a much more equal field than many think, and you find more men wanting kids and fewer women.

I feel like a lot of blame is thrown in the wrong direction here, or at least way overgeneralized. Cut toxic people out of your lives, but don't judge a whole gender by the bad apples or by long outdated stereotypes.

[A Ghoul Editor]

Let the rock-throwing commence!

Now prepare for the inevitable attacks... In 3... 2... 1...

You are preemptively, passive-aggressively posturing against the people who might want to have a conversation with you, which makes me think it's not worth having a conversation with you.

Beyond this, you remind me of a character from an old movie: "An American Werewolf in London". I say this without judgement but rather as an observation and I wish you good fortune!

[Hobbyistatplay]

Jesus Christ guys, this is a website about jerking off. What the fuck is all this shit?

[gynephilos]

Jesus Christ guys, this is a website about jerking off. What the fuck is all this shit?

You have to realize that men don't have many places to talk about their issues, so why not on a porn forum.

[barebone123]

Jesus Christ guys, this is a website about jerking off. What the fuck is all this shit?

You have to realize that men don't have many places to talk about their issues, so why not on a porn forum.

Agreed, this is a great thread! Guys being honest, like Pseudonym. Great post he wrote!

[Nodoro]

I find this thread interesting too. I’m all for sharing our personal experiences but I must confess I am deeply disturb by part of the content.

OP, I find your posts chilling, both in form and content. I know judging someone’s character from a few words across the internet is a rather futile exercise... Yet, between your passive-aggressive tone, the cherry-picking of logical fallacies, your weird reverence for content creators, belittling those who disagree with you, the distribution of praises and awards to the others, the claim you know of « deeply uncomfortable truths » and of course your blatant misogyny… between all that I can’t prevent myself from thinking you just want to manipulate your reader. Even your answers to extremely personal and heart-breaking stories seems off and manipulative.
What do you want ? An audience ? Someone to share your theories with ? I don’t know if you really believe what you say or if you are some sort of elaborate troll. Maybe you tell yourself you are on a mission to spread those ideas ? Or, maybe you just get off on controversies ?
Anyway get help. Go find a licensed (male !) therapist. Perhaps show him your post history ? You can probably afford it if skip on or two sessions with those high end escorts of yours. Oh, and you don’t need to answer to my post – it was in fact not written for you.

So why did I bother then ? I spend the first half of my adult life extremely alone and miserable because of that. More than a decade of solitude and rejection in fact. For some reason it rarely occurred to me that it was anyone else fault but my own. Have I came across incel talk-point I might have found them appealing at some point... I guess I’ll never know. During most of that period I was visiting Milovana. I found plenty of interesting content, talented creators and exiting new fetishes. While reading this tread it occurs to me that, maybe, a young version of me is lurking on this tread right now ? Maybe he is tempted by some of the arguments, seduced by this depiction of a « selfish Western Woman » (it looks more serious with capital letters ?), or pseudo-scientific babbles about biological determinism and genes. Live your life the way you can but please, please, don't fall for hatred towards women. Sure, at first it will boost your ravaged ego. But you can acknowledge that your life is difficult, that society sucks, without resorting to a scapegoat. It is not worth it. It will just serve to isolate you further from the rest of humanity.

Oh, and maybe, don’t get you political ideas from wankers (me included).

Back to lurking

[edger477]

I may be wrong - since, to quote one of the commenters, I don't have an "informed opinion"... But I am pretty sure that women will never offer you the kind of intimacy you describe, until you promise to be the father of their children. They are programmed for this... just like we are programmed to salivate for them! And they know you want and need that. So they will use this intimacy as a method of control over you - because it is a great "Weapon"!.

And to be clear - I would do the same, in their shoes!

I am married for decade and half, with kid and if I can add anything to this thread that others haven't said already is that to me it looks like this paragraph shows why you got to the point where you are now... It is easy to become so defensive and paranoid about women when you believe they want to control you so you would do not what you want but what they want... In that case you are right and you are better off alone.

However, almost all of us who are happy to be part of family have found a partner who shares our goals. We strive to accomplish something together. That means my wife does not want to control me so I would do something that I don't want... Sometimes when she wants me to invest energy into doing something; and I don't want to do it, it is always because I lack motivation, but it is always something I want done too. So basically, she is here to help me motivate myself to be productive instead of wasting time on i.e. playing video games for several hours every day. If you have not found a women that can be life partner for you, to have shared goals, then you have not found a potential wife. Surface is irrelevant, we will all grew old and will not look perfect in 20 years, but if you have a partner in life, then you can work together to accomplish a goal.

On pure biological/evolutionary level, our purpose is to extend the species. One person needs a partner for that, you need a failover so child will still have a parent in case something happens to one of them, but also I believe it is insanely hard to grow a child without partner. If I help my child grow and have proper ideals (what I just wrote), then my children will also be able to look for proper partner and produce healthy offspring.

If we look at this from evolutionary perspective - if someone only has bad experiences in relationships, and has only people of opposite sex who have incompatible goals in life (so they can't be partnered), then none of them will produce offspring. If you live in a big city, it might be why you feel as you do, and it might simply be natural negative feedback loop... one day we might find that Calhoun's mice utopia experiment from 1960-ies applies to humans too and overpopulation resolves itself by creating conditions in which men don't partner with women and don't produce offspring.

[Sapphire]

Looks like this thread took off while your one in general didn't, so I'll copy/paste my comment here with a few added thoughts in response to the many posts here...

This reads like the classic incel manifesto. Nothing new here. What I'm about to write is not me being upset because you're a philosopher...it's because your philosophy sucks.

You are suffering from confirmation bias, assuming your negative experience is everyone's experience. I can tell you, the pleasure that comes from serving someone else in sex and someone SERVING YOU in sex in return in a loving relationship, and the euphoria of being collapsed on top of each other after fucking each other's brains out is WAY better than masturbation...and having sex with a sex worker can't substitute that. You know the "post-nut clarity" that comes after masturbation? You don't get that in sex in a loving relationship; it's just bliss, no drop from the high. And someone you know intimately, intimately teasing and sucking and fucking you to bring you pleasure? Masturbation can't compete.

Also, relationship are give and take, both supporting the other; not one "serving" the other. You are looking at bad examples of relationships and assuming they are all like that or that it is the only way to have those relationships. The other thread you linked, did you read the responses? People weren't commiserating at how miserable he was, they were sharing how to better communicate to improve the relationship. And you know why? Because they know communication works! Relationships can work.

Look, it's ok to be single. I'm a not-single person saying it's ok to be single and I'm not judging you on it. You do you. But you are actually the one judging people who are not like you. In a comment above you think you're smart by "weeding out" the happily married people because all we are doing is saying we won the coin-toss...nope, that's not it. We didn't win the coin toss because it isn't a coin toss. You have a choice to leave a horrible woman. You have the ability to make choices that make you better suitable for a good woman. You have the choice to remain single. You thinking it's a coin toss is you not wanting to make any effort.