For the love of God will someone suggest an e-stim?

[boundupone]

I have been stimming for over a decade, and love it

The sensations are not easy to describe, but should only be painful if that is what you want

There are so many settings and setups, that there are almost unlimited possibilites. But I 100% recommend you to try

[m8]

If you're going to give it a try, I'd strongly recommend building a DIY box. It's really simple even if you've got no previous experience. The most basic design involves nothing more than getting a set of speakers, cutting four wires and connecting two small transformers to the ends. It's less than 20 minutes work and the cost is minimal, but it'll give you a device that's in a similar league to the commercial boxes when it comes to sensations. Even the more advanced designs aren't much more complicated than that.

I don't understand though, why is no one taking advantage of this market if it's so simple to DIY + seemingly on-par with most commercial offerings?

Personally, I'm not super interested in building something cool; I just want a ready-made product, and I'd gladly pay extra knowing I have the best possibilities with it. Based on senseisan's review, I assume Axis would probably be the best alternative for someone like me who has more money than time/effort?

[TwilightKenzie]

I have an Axis, and while I have nothing to compare it to, I'm pretty happy with it. A few of the built in settings are quite nice ('Builder" under "wave mode" probably being my go to) but I mostly use the "line in mode" with estim files from here and the estim archive (I play the estim files on my phone, which is connected to the Axis with the included cable).

I recently discovered the "tilt" mode as well. I skipped over it for a while as seemed a bit gimmicky, but having tried it you can actually get some pretty nice sensations just by tilting the unit at different angles. I usually do 3-4 hour sessions and the battery so far has not come close to dying in that time.

I think the only worry I have with it is the 1 year warranty (extended for free to 3 years if you register it). It's quite pricey (£350 usually, although I got mine for £210) for something that might only last three years. In comparison, I think the 2B has a lifetime warranty and from reading, it seems like it might have more built in modes and finer control for those modes - but again, I don't know that first hand. Hearing the "line in" mode on the 2B might not be as good though would be a real deal breaker for me, as using estim files is my usual method of estim play.

[masperturbator]

I don't understand though, why is no one taking advantage of this market if it's so simple to DIY + seemingly on-par with most commercial offerings?

It isn't so simple.

Commercial TENS and EMS operate at lower electrical current than ESTIM. The electrical current in ESTIM is more like the same used to milk bulls fore livestock artificial insemination. The risk of injury is always understated here. It is essentially a mechanical drug, and that's why it is treated like something you would find on Erowid.

[LondonGent]

I don't understand though, why is no one taking advantage of this market if it's so simple to DIY + seemingly on-par with most commercial offerings?

It isn't so simple.

Commercial TENS and EMS operate at lower electrical current than ESTIM. The electrical current in ESTIM is more like the same used to milk bulls fore livestock artificial insemination. The risk of injury is always understated here. It is essentially a mechanical drug, and that's why it is treated like something you would find on Erowid.

What makes you think there's any difference in current between a TENS machine and an EStim box? That's a very strong statement to make without any evidence and the link you've provided says nothing of the sort.

As for why there aren't any cheap commercial options, there are already a few on the market (crappy generic Chinese one, ElectraStim KIX, etc) but they don't tend to support audio - that's usually reserved for the higher-end models.

Audio input has only really become a big deal very recently, with the sudden increase in the number of scripted videos that allow easy generation of synced estim files. Prior to that a box with a good selection of patterns built in would have been more important than the ability to play a new one every time. Personally, I think there is a gap in the market for it. Something at the level of the electrastim I linked above that supported audio input would make an interesting competitor to the automated strokers (Launch, Handy, Kiroo, etc) that have come onto the market in the past few years.

[masperturbator]

What makes you think there's any difference in current between a TENS machine and an EStim box? That's a very strong statement to make without any evidence and the link you've provided says nothing of the sort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current

A simple electric circuit, where current is represented by the letter i. The relationship between the voltage (V), resistance (R), and current (I) is V=IR; this is known as Ohm's law.

V = I * R

The intensity of stimulation is V, voltage, which is raised or lowered by I, current, because R, resistance, is considered physically constant. Resistance is changed by things like wiring/connector materials and conductive adhesives or lubricants.

When you turn knobs, change settings, or provide a waveform, you are giving instructions to the circuit to change its output current, measurable as voltage.

[LondonGent]

What makes you think there's any difference in current between a TENS machine and an EStim box? That's a very strong statement to make without any evidence and the link you've provided says nothing of the sort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current

A simple electric circuit, where current is represented by the letter i. The relationship between the voltage (V), resistance (R), and current (I) is V=IR; this is known as Ohm's law.

V = I * R

The intensity of stimulation is V, voltage, which is raised or lowered by I, current, because R, resistance, is considered physically constant. Resistance is changed by things like wiring/connector materials and conductive adhesives or lubricants.

When you turn knobs, change settings, or provide a waveform, you are giving instructions to the circuit to change its output current, measurable as voltage.

Congratulations - You understand basic physics!

What relevance does it have to this discussion? You've said nothing about the amount of voltage or current used by either type of device.

[masperturbator]

You've said nothing about the amount of voltage or current used by either type of device.

I did.

When you turn knobs, change settings, or provide a waveform, you are giving instructions to the circuit to change its output current, measurable as voltage.

There is no need for voltmeter readings to prove what I'm telling you. It is a plain fact that the entire reason that there are a variety of commercial and DIY ESTIM devices is that their design-allowed electrical outputs are different from TENS/EMS. Nearly the entire reason that a Dungeon Labs Coyote Box is less satisfying to a comparison-shopping ESTIM user is that the Coyote Box is more like a TENS/EMS box than it is like a DIY ESTIM box.

The differences are in the health and safety circuits that DIY intentionally avoids.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do BDSM with it, and you wouldn't be able to turn up the volume when your dick has gone deaf.

[LondonGent]

There is no need for voltmeter readings to prove what I'm telling you. It is a plain fact that the entire reason that there are a variety of commercial and DIY ESTIM devices is that their design-allowed electrical outputs are different from TENS/EMS. Nearly the entire reason that a Dungeon Labs Coyote Box is less satisfying to a comparison-shopping ESTIM user is that the Coyote Box is more like a TENS/EMS box than it is like a DIY ESTIM box.

The differences are in the health and safety circuits that DIY intentionally avoids.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do BDSM with it, and you wouldn't be able to turn up the volume when your dick has gone deaf.

Yet again the big statements with zero evidence. What is the maximum output voltage of a Coyote Box? What about a typical DIY Estim box? What do these mysterious health and safety circuits actually do?

Commercial boxes like the Coyote don't get criticised for lacking power, they've already got more than enough for just about anyone. People like DIY boxes because they are simpler, easier to use and cheaper, not because they're chasing higher voltages.

You've provided zero reason why or evidence that DIY boxes put more current through the body and unless you're going to start bringing some facts to the discussion, I'm done arguing with you.

[masperturbator]

You've provided zero reason why or evidence that

You don't understand.

[senseisan]

You've said nothing about the amount of voltage or current used by either type of device.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do BDSM with it, and you wouldn't be able to turn up the volume when your dick has gone deaf.

Sorry if I got you wrong, but you definitely can do BDSM with commercial ESTIM boxes. They have plenty of power while still usually having safe short pulses of current.

As for DIY, I don't think anyone can legally sell audio-line transformers designed to be plugged to your genitals. It's probably fine, but I do recommend doing some research and practice with some commercial units. I've done some stupid shit in a horny haze, like wondering why the feeling went away, turned volume to 100% and then plugged in a loose cable I found. I'd hate to learn that lesson with a unit that has more power than I can handle, or some way to realiably limit max power.

One thing I enjoy about Axis (and flux for bit cheaper but without the proximity sensors), is that if I have power of 50%, there's no amount of volume (like someone making a skype call, don't ask) that will make it fry my nuts off. When I want more range for the tease, I'll turn the volume down and power up.

I'll be going the DIY route once I figure out a good supplier of parts, but I'm more than happy with the units I have. I was in a similar situation of having bit more money than time and patience. I'm an electrical engineer, so I'm not really afraid of doing DIY, just cautious.

[masperturbator]

Sorry if I got you wrong, but you definitely can do BDSM with commercial ESTIM boxes. They have plenty of power while still usually having safe short pulses of current.

We agree. Many commercial ESTIM boxes and DIY designs are intentionally capable of BSDM play. Most TENS/EMS devices are intentionally designed to be incapable of BDSM play, but not with any intention about BDSM play. It's just that TENS/EMS is a casual medical relief purpose.

As for DIY, I don't think anyone can legally sell audio-line transformers designed to be plugged to your genitals.

That's not true. The legalities are mostly about the seller's willingness to accept responsibility (liability) for injuries. That is why you see the "CE" mark or the "UL" mark on many things. Those manufacturers are claiming third-party assurance of their products. It isn't illegal to sell these ESTIM devices. It might be dangerous for you or I to build one at our home and sell it here, because we might fuck it up and then be liable for medical bills for the rest of someone's dickless life.

I'm an electrical engineer, so I'm not really afraid of doing DIY, just cautious.

You're above me in understanding electricity. Just keep in mind that ESTIM is a power electronic build, and the DC on out is intentionally risky.

[senseisan]

That's not true. The legalities are mostly about the seller's willingness to accept responsibility (liability) for injuries. That is why you see the "CE" mark or the "UL" mark on many things. Those manufacturers are claiming third-party assurance of their products. It isn't illegal to sell these ESTIM devices. It might be dangerous for you or I to build one at our home and sell it here, because we might fuck it up and then be liable for medical bills for the rest of someone's dickless life.

Ah, I'm not expert on legal side of it, but I'm (possibly hastily and wrongly) assuming something like "low voltage directive" would prohibit that. Thought of paying compensations for someones dick exploding does deter me from staring a Zap'A'Cock etsy shop.

Just keep in mind that ESTIM is a power electronic build, and the DC on out is intentionally risky.

When it comes to DIY, they shouldn't have DC. It goes through the audio transformer that by nature wouldn't let that go through, nor would anything coming from a soundcard. Even then, if it operates with 12v, that's probably the most that would ever go through if assembled incorrectly. But, like I said, I don't own one so I don't have a experience on how they behave or feel like.

"Risk aware" is a good concept in many kinks. I wouldn't say any electro play is 100% completely safe, especially if used incorrectly. Same would go with just anal, do stupid things with it and you're in hopsital for perforation or getting something out.

[masperturbator]

Ah, I'm not expert on legal side of it, but I'm (possibly hastily and wrongly) assuming something like "low voltage directive" would prohibit that. Thought of paying compensations for someones dick exploding does deter me from staring a Zap'A'Cock etsy shop.

https://media.lanecc.edu/users/howardc/ ... print.html

[LondonGent]

You've provided zero reason why or evidence that

You don't understand.

You're above me in understanding electricity. Just keep in mind that ESTIM is a power electronic build, and the DC on out is intentionally risky.

You've just proved your own lack of understanding. Estim boxes do not have a DC output.

https://media.lanecc.edu/users/howardc/ ... print.html

At last - some actual science! Unfortunately for you, it only backs up how similar estim boxes are to the professionally designed medical devices. As described in the document, they use amplitude modulated biphasic alternating current to avoid a build up of charge in the body. The pulse durations are short and the typical frequencies are in the 'medium' or 'microcurrent' ranges. Output voltages are comparable to commercially available TENS devices

If you don't want to try estim - don't try it. It's your choice. But unless you've got some real proof that it's dangerous, stop interfering in things you know little about and leave the rest of us to discuss it in peace.