E-stim options & variation

[CumScream]

There' s been a growing community of great e-stim content & teases lately. Great stuff!

But a unintended divide has started to form, which I hope can be worked out in future teases & updates.

Naturally, different equipment provides different results, so people with a 2B wont necessarily get the same stims as with a ET or a BT (most people would not own multiple systems, plus a tease creator would probably only calibrate for a unit they have).

A few teases which state which equipment it was calibrated/design to work with, but unfortunately this reduces the playability of well written content, especially if the 'harsh' signals are ineffective...


My recommendation; A few teases already offer options of different stim files in a setting menu.
This could become a standard method; but focused to offer each of the mainstream boxes a setup to suit.

As there's already various stim library's around, it would be useful to categorise these against the equipment best suited, for other creators to make note of & use effectively.

Anybody else seen this in action?

[lolol2]

I have received a lot of feedback over time from my teases and a lot of stuff about specially the 2B problems.

For me as a tease author who have no commercial device it is very hard to understand how to create audio files that work with the 2B, I tried things and send it to 2B owner but the result were never easy to interpret, something worked, something not.

What I learned is that shocks will not work because the device has an integrated ramp function for surprising peaks which will kill every shock signal.
So to produce pain or signals that will feel a lot stronger you have to raise the volume a lot or change the frequency to lower ones.
Than the signals will feel stronger and you can produce pain compared to the "normal" stim files.

But exactly this stuff is what you don't want to do for all other devices out there.
Because changing the frequency band can result in extremely different levels on all other devices out there.
There is no way to get a good balance over all devices out there, some will work, some won't, no way to find something working for all.
So you try to stay in the same frequency band and volume range, this is the most successful and easy way to get your files playing well on all other devices.

So there is no way to get files that will fit to both categories (or I never found a way), the things that work for the 2B will produce unpredictable volume levels on all other devices.
For example the tease Estim Bondage which is made for the 2B and using exactly this feature of two kind of signals.
This can work on other devices, but this can go horrible wrong and can be unusable on other devices because of the crazy volume jumps.

So when you create a tease and you haven't a 2B you will focus to get your stuff work on your and all other "normal" devices instead of focusing on the one device that will manipulate the audio signal.

My teases have different audio signals some time, but no one is focused on the 2B, maybe I just hit something that work "by accident" on the 2B.


In my oppinion the 2B is broken by design for teases like this and it's a shame that it looks like the creators are not really aware of this problems.
There are a lot users who are requesting this, but it seems like the new promised firmware are not really better in this category.
https://www.e-stim.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9760

Of course the 2B has a lot of other cool features, but specially when you want to enjoy raw audio files from different authors out there, you better get a different device with no signal transformation or the option to disable it completely.


So the focused should be to get the 2B authors to create a firmware that has the option to disable the signal transformation completely instead of building workarounds that will mess up the audio files for all other devices out there.

My thoughts about that problem, of course not the answer all 2B owners like to hear.

[hosenguy]

I currently have all 3 devices that are being discussed. I definitely feel a difference between the boxes.

The BT or stereo stim box provides true amplified audio signals. This leaves you the most susceptible to various signal changes. Any new files I try I first load into Audacity and check for several specific issues before using, and then I run through the session at a low level. If all is good I go full tilt!

All commercial "designed for stim" boxes process the audio. Think about this, each company writes their own software for their own device with their own version of testing and expectations. AND most of these were designed when the stim audio files were few and circuitry was more primitive than it is now. The processing was necessary to allow sales into some markets (signals designed to follow the TENS standards) and as such not able to produce true audio. Additionally, commercial boxes do not have the power to produce true audio at stim levels. To get around that they turn the inputted signal into some programmed pattern of pulses with high voltage but low overall power. Nothing like audio at all. These boxes include in their signal processing some protection to prevent signal changes from being hurtful. A BT device does not.

The signals that lolol2 uses are actually quite good to my liking on the BT and ET but do not do as well on the 2B.

I would suggest that teases could be supplied with a settings menu that has a default directory for the original supplied stim files and several separate directories for additional box types that would be included as menu choices (even if empty, not existing, or duplicates of the originals initially).

If the supplied files did not work with a users box the user could then make replacement stim files for their own box. Any files that do work would be copied into the new directory (or left there) and files that did not work could be replaced or modified. This might eventually create the library of files defined for each box as desired by CumScream.

Additionally an author could send a beta to some other creators to have them share the creation of the files for the other boxes.
Once you had a delightful set of files created you could post the upgraded content for all to use.

I can dream can't I?

[CumScream]

For me as a tease author who have no commercial device it is very hard to understand how to create audio files that work with the 2B, I tried things and send it to 2B owner but the result were never easy to interpret, something worked, something not.

What I learned is that shocks will not work because the device has an integrated ramp function for surprising peaks which will kill every shock signal.
So to produce pain or signals that will feel a lot stronger you have to raise the volume a lot or change the frequency to lower ones.
Than the signals will feel stronger and you can produce pain compared to the "normal" stim files.

That's a couple of good points.

Which is surprising to hear, as Estim Challenge, Estim Bondage & E-stim Fantasy (vid) all work so well. These produced very natural sensations, vs some of the other content that can feel random...

... authors to create a firmware that has the option to disable the signal transformation completely instead of building workarounds...

That is the best answer of course.
Might be a hard wait for that. Milo is quite a niche crowd after all.
We should probably just keep on developing these mod's till then...

"Fake it till [they] make it" (to butcher a cliche)

The BT or stereo stim box provides true amplified audio signals. This leaves you the most susceptible to various signal changes.

This sounds potentially scary, and not the fun type of scary...
I found a vid that had a 300%+ jump in the last 5min, actually during the closing credits. I always suspected this was malicious intent, and was seriously glad I 'tested' the signals all the way though first.

I would suggest that teases could be supplied with a settings menu that has a default directory for the original supplied stim files and several separate directories for additional box types that would be included as menu choices (even if empty, not existing, or duplicates of the originals initially).

Sounds like something worth trialing.
Might be limited to TAI-type sessions though...

This might eventually create the library of files defined for each box...

I've a bunch of bookmarks for various files, not necessarily the newest of creations, which I was mostly referring to here as already existing.
But wasn't sure if this had yet evolved into a set of 'pointers' for other creators; both new & established.

I can dream can't I?

Dream on my man! Dream on...

[lolol2]

I found a vid that had a 300%+ jump in the last 5min, actually during the closing credits. I always suspected this was malicious intent, and was seriously glad I 'tested' the signals all the way though first.

Any new files I try I first load into Audacity and check for several specific issues before using, and then I run through the session at a low level.

I do exactly the same, never play an unknown file without checking in Audacity what's going on there, only takes a few seconds to see if the file looks harmonic or if you better take a deeper look.
That's the down side of pure audio stim boxes, there are files out there that could fry your holy parts.

Which is surprising to hear, as Estim Challenge, Estim Bondage & E-stim Fantasy (vid) all work so well. These produced very natural sensations, vs some of the other content that can feel random...

Estim Challenge uses only pleasurable signals with ramps everywhere which should work on all devices or should feel the same.
Estim Bondage as said uses two different base frequency which could lead to heavy volume jumps on other devices, able to fix over the setting pages and set volume levels fitting your devices, not a suitable way for every tease.
I think I remember that Estim Fantasy had some very spiky signals on the special parts, that will leave your hand on the volume button when signals are changing, maybe also was tested with a 2B?

We should probably just keep on developing these mod's till then...

"Fake it till [they] make it" (to butcher a cliche)

Of course! I asked more than once back in time in my Tower tease thread for example files that work on the 2B, never got anything I could work with at this time. Over time I realized that the 2B problem is something bigger that is not easy to handle without creating completely independent stim files which have to been tested on a 2B device... because I don't have one... story ends.
The alternative files were also made for units without signal processing.

[CumScream]

The release of the Tower tease was my motivation for buying a stim unit.
(Though I wouldn't know there were subtle but important differences at the time)

Before hand, it was only a nice-to-have.
But then suddenly, there was a story or two to play with & immerse within.

[alexfayer]

I think i have to join this discussion, very interesting so far!

TL;DR: My suggestion is solution 2 marked at the end.

I started out with a simple tens unit used for muscle stimulation, no audio input.
Then i bought an ABox from E-Stim System.
The ABox does no audio processing but it is not able to keep up with the power the audio would like to produce. It feels like every constant signal starts which a sharp shock, but then it feels good if you turn it up. Until the signal goes quiet again. Also it only accepts mono audios. It seems to be a very expensive device for what it is capable of.

Then i got the 2B unit, but i should not have done that. I am very dissapointed of what such an expensive device can do. It basically is an ABox with signal processing to eliminate the sharp shocks. However this eliminates the possibility of intented shocks and also lowers the "feeling" of the stimming. You don't feel the waves that well. Almost every signal feels constant.

Estim Fantasy works very well with the 2B, except the "pain" section. The opposite is true for the ABox. The ABox works good on the shock section but also produces shocks on every other part which was not designed for torture. This behaviour is the same for the teases here on milovana: Estim Challenge, Estim Tower, ... you know the teases.

That's when my mission for Estim Bondage started: Build a tease that works on the 2B. And the results were good but not good enough for my standards. There is one possibility to produce shocks on the 2B: If you can take a constant signal at 10% intensity, set the intensity to around 30-40% and send a shock signal through it and it will feel more like shock at 10%. So the hardware is definetly able to do that, but the software doesn't allow it. Also it seems that sometimes the CPU on the 2B is overwhelmed by the audio and has problems recognizing that i turn the knobs.

So that i got that out of the way there are multiple solutions to finally solve the Estim incompatibility.

Solution 1 (best):
A new company starts developing Estim devices and makes a device thats less than 100€, is able to output filtered and unfiltered signals, is also able to connect to a pc interface via USB(for conrolling the unit or sending audio signal over USB to have the same performance independing on the pc sound card) and as well as have a new standardized stim output connector instead of a 3.5mm audio jack. The lower price should make a lot more people buy or switch Estim devices. I would love to start a company like that but I currently have a nice job as a Firmware and Hardware Engineer.

Solution 2 (good):
Forget the Estim System Units. They are not designed for this and they never will looking at their firmware progress. Stop developing teases for it and advertise in the intro that it does not work on the 2B. Do not warn that it will maybe not work. Say that it is not going to work on a 2B device, period. Yes, that's exactly the opposite what i did. But if i wouldn't have tried it i could not say for sure that it is not worth it. If no teases for the 2B exists nobody will buy it and therefore there will be no incompatibility. Sorry for the 2B owners out there, but i am one myself and support this. I would rather have a Estim tease with a really nice story, with signals that work well, with interactive layers instead of a tease that just has a random picture but works for every estim unit. The work for the author increases a lot and will thus reduce the frequency and quality of upcoming teases.

Solution 3 (bad):
Make Estim teases universal. The creator needs every estim device to make it work for all of them. In my opinion giving the audio file selection out to the public is not a good solution long term. As lolol2 said this is very difficult. Teases get stuck on development because you need to wait for other people to select the audio files. Also they will think that this part should be more intense but the author may intended it to be less intense. So it is best to have the creator own all devices. But who has ALL the devices and if not all, which are the important ones?

So in my opinion we should do solution 2. I think there are 2 devices left then. The BT Econo and the ET312B. How much do they differ? Are there more than just these two, excluding E-stim Systems.
From what i have heard the ET312B is the best unit to use. Is this correct? Because i am really thinking about buying it, but it is really expensive. I really need your advice here because that will be the unit my next tease will be made for. :)


Sorry for the long post. I finally found a thread where i can put my thougts on this because i was thinking about the same topic for the last 2weeks.

[lolol2]

So in my opinion we should do solution 2. I think there are 2 devices left then. The BT Econo and the ET312B.

In the Tower thread there were people who recommended this device as working very well with all files from my teases.
http://www.uk.3rdh.com/
Don't have one on my own, if you are interested check the Tower thread for the feedback.

[Stimmer0815]

Hi,

i own the 3RDH and also the 2B. In the beginning i had a lot of problems with the 3RDH because it is totally different to the 2B. I had some experience with the 2B and so i knew how to handle all the things which are not working with this device.
I also send some Messages to E-Stim systems but i ever got the same answer. This is a feature....
Then i bought the 3RDH and in the beginning i was very disappointed with the results.
What I did was to ask the support from 3RDH if they can help me with settings and maybe test the tease on their own device. And what then happened is really nice. They tested the tease by themselves. They did not know Milovana before. They send me their settings, a lot of tips etc.. I send them wishes for firmware updates and some future electrodes and they develop these things for they customers. I can say that we will see some mayor Firmware improvements and also Hardware improvements of this device in the next future.
With optimized settings the feeling of almost all teases is very nice. Much better than with the 2B.
I hope with one of the next firmware versions they implement an expert Mode where you can override all the Audio processing. Actually, you can eliminate the processing to nearly zero, but there is definitely one.
I think if the community needs help in developing Stim files for this device, they would be grateful if we ask for assistance.
In the End I am very happy to buy this device, even when the beginning was not very good. The Support is just great.

So in my opinion we should do solution 2. I think there are 2 devices left then. The BT Econo and the ET312B.

In the Tower thread there were people who recommended this device as working very well with all files from my teases.
http://www.uk.3rdh.com/
Don't have one on my own, if you are interested check the Tower thread for the feedback.

[kksavas]

even the electrode setup can change the variation

[Stimmer0815]

Good Morning,

als i told i actually own an E-Stim 2B and an 3RDH Stim device.
Now i am thinking about to buy an BT-Stim Elite or an modified Erostek 312B from Blackstore shop.
Can anyone give me an helpful advice? Both devices are expensive and i dont want to buy a device which is not worth the price.

Thank you all for any advice you can give.

Greetings Chris

[hosenguy]

If you feel you could build your own BT stim device then there are many options with established designs. BT is the only one I kow of that is ready-built and of good quality. A build it yourself will cost around $200 or less for top grade parts.

I will be selling my 2B soon and have been interested in the 3RDH myself.

Stimming is such a personally defined feeling and I find many reviews of the same stim sessions with the same equipment described quite differently so that I find it hard to believe any review. All you can do is go with the average of reviews and your gut instinct.

Really no different than your feelings for that special other person you are having a relationship with. You love your mate but others may think the person is a shithead! So it goes with stim equipment! Good - Bad? It's personal.

[Rillo]

My recommendation; A few teases already offer options of different stim files in a setting menu.
This could become a standard method; but focused to offer each of the mainstream boxes a setup to suit.

As there's already various stim library's around, it would be useful to categorise these against the equipment best suited, for other creators to make note of & use effectively.

Anybody else seen this in action?

I have a hybrid suggestions (I don't think I saw mentioned). It's not perfect, but its better than nothing.

• As a community here, we encourage creators to support a base set of devices. We can make this easy by doing the following:

• Start a "How To" post on how to start a tease that can support multiple devices

• A group of us with different systems could create a repository of sound files.
  • For example, we can have a community collection of pain files. Let's assume 10 for each major device.
  • They won't be perfect translations and may be very different in some cases, but this is better than nothing at all.

• Next, we make a shared function set for EOS.
  • The function would take an input (device code: 1 = BT Stim, 2 = 312, 3 = 2b, etc)
  • Already having a shared repository of named sounds, you could drop in a file and use the function to quickly switch out file type.
    • For example, the 2B may require volume jumps. The function would know to pick up an alternate file, make the change for the "pain portion", before returning the volume and moving on.
  • I don't think all files would need equivalents, just a few cases, so this would not mean every sound file has to be wrapped in a new function. Just a few places.

• The last point would to have an option at the start for the user to select device type. At this point, the function and files have been community created/tested. It't not perfect and would take a little extra work, but the trade off is everyone can get something from every new tease.

I am happy to help in the testing of files and developing of this code.

[Electro]

Most of the reason why some of the estim teases designed for the 'estim systems 2B' device found here don't work on other devices is because the volume of the files that are created happen to be way too low. These files would work fine if they had a higher baseline volume when used on the 2B because the loudest files still are far lower than -0db(max volume for a sound file).

I've been able to play the eStim Bondage tease, which is designed for the 2B on a DIY amplifier+resistor+transformer based analog eStim device(usually this type has a name such as BT Stim, DIY AudioStim, MidiStim, or StereoStim depending on the plans used to build it). This tease works fine when I boost the volume significantly by using an external app that performs the function of intercepting and raising the volume. The tease files feel good and the pain files function as I expect them to based on their waveforms, although two of the files might be more painful than the rest depending on electrode config(more painful if using a 2 electrode with a common sort of configuration) but I never got a response on how the electrode config is intended to be setup.

2B devices don't seem to work well with files that resemble this graphical timeline -------------|--------|-------|----- with silence being dashes and | being a sudden spike similar to a whip strike. It seems that the stuff that works with the 2B and other devices in a fairly compatible way happen to use a carrier wave(ongoing signal) and adding the pain with a longer duration. At least this is what appears to be working successfully in eStim Bondage which uses mostly high volume sine waves and high volume square waves depending on the pain file with the constant waveform running for multiple seconds to create pain.

I think everyone has their own preferences for what they find painful and what's pleasurable for volume levels because everyone has a different pain threshold. I know when I started playing with estim pain files, I found certain files to be very painful but then later on found them to be less painful and this is largely do to my electrode placement and electrode type(TENS pads, or at least the ones I was using don't conduct as well as some other electrodes I've used and when a pain file would hit, they would be at the max of their conductivity with the pleasure file and pain would be a volume that generated a sting). Now I play through the same teases and I did before and they are almost not painful to me and sometimes will cause an orgasm but I'm also into pain a bit too, so that's a factor. So what I'm saying is that the EOS functionality for changing volume for audio files to increase or decrease the volume spread(make pleasure files quieter or pain files louder and calibrating to the level of pleasure files) to increase or decrease the pain level to what works for that person, their device, and electrode type/configuration.

ET312b handles audio processing in a way that I think is the closest to how the analog amplifier type(DIY, BT Stim, etc) handles audio. They seem to play files and produce very similar results. Similar to the 2B though, it allows the input volume to be raised significantly higher so if the files are all too quiet for other devices, it can be turned up to accommodate. So an ET312b file that doesn't work on an audiostim device is likely just too quiet. This usually ends up being the case for stuff that works for the 2B.

The files that I know really don't work well for DIY audiostim devices are the ones created with low-duty cycle (LDC) waveforms. These feel like crap for analog devices because transformers can't reproduce the feeling their waveforms are intended to produce, but there are very few of these types of files out in the wild apart from some of the 3RDH website or some that came with the 2B on an audio CD or made with software provided with these devices. It seems based on people here that 3RDH made a firmware update after users reached out to them saying "hey, why doesn't this work" and they provided a link, they took a look and adjusted how their software interprets the audio and made their software behave how it needed to in order to make their equipment work well in response to people who couldn't use their device with the lolol2 harsh pain files in eStim Tower. As far as I know the newer firmware of the 3RDH should make most audio compatible if it works with a DIY Audiostim device.

I didn't think I was going to write a book as a response but based on the feedback I've been reading on this forum and other places, it seems like as long as pain isn't configured in a very short sudden burst it can be processed by a 2B. Apart from that make sure the volume of the lowest volume files(usually pleasure or tease type files) aren't too low to where the user of a device set to maximum can't feel the files. Once you do this, you could account for pretty much any device that is stereo and can output with the capability of typing two leads of a separate channel together into a common connection with two separate leads for left and right, which has the sticky/tribal name of "tri-phase".

Hope this helps, if I had a 2B device, I'd try to take a file that is painful and see how short a section of audio can be without having the device "mute" the sound. I think this would be helpful information to create stim files that mimic the short 'whip' and 'cane' strikes without making a 5 second blast of pain. There's some threshold in there and those of us without a 2B are relying on this information to create audio for this device. Messing in Audacity with a known painful file by cutting it shorter and shorter until you have this information should be fairly easy to do.

[Jamatora]

Hello I have an electro stimulation device at home. ( https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07MDN5BC4/ref ... J1ZQ%3D%3D )The user description says that it should not be used in the genital area. I wanted to ask if you can use it or if you can convert it.