[ALPHA-RELEASE (.09)][GuideMe] Random Mazes

Webteases are great, but what if you're in the mood for a slightly more immersive experience? Chat about Tease AI and other offline tease software.

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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

Nezhul wrote:I'll share my thoughts on the matter, because I spend some time theorycrafting about mazes, but I don't know if I'll actually ever find the time to sit down and make one with GuideMe.
Awesome, and thank you. I saw a post of yours a while back mentioning you were going to maybe start working on a random maze and that gave me a bit of the idea to get going with it.

The algorithm I have making the maze is pretty much the one I have in the first couple posts, but I did modify it to have a chance of punching out holes in the dead ends. This opens the map up a bit to give it a lot of multiple paths so it isn't just a long snake. From here what I'm doing is hoping to use triggers and events to make the players want to walk from here to there in the maze doing 'stuff' besides finding the exit.

I haven't gotten to a chance to play test it, but based on how fun the other maze teases have been, I think that format should be enough to start.

For picking the exit node, I just picked a random spot that is 'far' far from the start. Far being like 70% of the width of the maze. I used as the crow flies, so it doesn't respect the layout, and may be closer or farther in actual walking distance. So far it seems ok with the mazes I've generated.

For Biomes, I haven't done anything yet to change the biome of areas of the maze (would like to do this) but what I did do was make 'themes' for a maze. Basically a new theme is just a directory of pictures like n.jpg, ns.jpg , nsew.jpg , representing each of the possible configurations of exits of a room. If i'm in a dead end with an exit on the north only, it picks n.jpg.

In one theme directory it's a hedge maze, in another I'm going to make it a mansion, in another it can be, well, whatever, the beach, in space, inside a whale, etc. It doesn't take too long to make a theme, just about 11 pictures or so from google and done. I think I have a random overview picture to pick from and a random exit picture to pick from when you first pick a theme.

I have a map in game. It's just a flag, when it's set, you will start recording spaces you've been in, then you can go off the navigation page and look at your map, it is basically the html used to display the examples in the first post I have.

Random encounters are triggered via an rpg like encounter chance, each step increasing your chance to bump into a random tease. There are also triggers that can be set via scripts, the triggers can get you into any other script based on you doing 'stuff' while in the maze or stepping on certain squares. Going to add a few more hooks but right now have a good amount.

As an example you can set a script to trigger randomly in 3, 4, or 5 encounters from now, then when leaving that script you can tell it to drop another trigger at your current location, so when you leave and come back, you would enter that new script. So for example you could make sure the 10th encounter is someone's house, then when you leave it, you can always go back to it by exiting the square you are on and going back to it.

I'm in full on story mode, I guess I like writing characters, or at least trying to. I have a lot of story stuff done, am debugging a few more encounters, then have, lets see, about 3 'story' encounters left, the standard ending(s), and the 'special' ending. I'm leaving the endings to do till last until I have more writing under my belt to make sure they come out good.

I'm going to start bulking up on the regular random teases you get as you walk now. But, I keep thinking about what you said in the denial mistress thread about playing your own teases and randomness. I'm trying to have every random tease I put in there at least remember that you've been back, but don't want to do fully random since I would like the text to match the pictures a bit, and to control the pacing more than a random script would.

What I think I'm trying to do is kind of psudo random it a bit, like you have 3 sections to the tease, start, mid, end, and you might have 3 options for the start, 1 for the mid, and 2 for the end, or something like that. That way you probably won't get the exact same tease each time, but as usual that is work. I am also thinking of having some that your actions the first time through affect your second time, so even if it is the same every time after that, you can feel like it's your fault the first time around.

Going to take a while. I'm making good progress but thinking I'll be ready ready in months rather than weeks. I want to get through it all solo first because I've already through I was done with the 'engine' part of the code but have been changing things around still as I need to actually make things work as planned.

I hope that it will be real friendly to add content to when I'm done, I feel like it is nice now, there are a lot of simple hooks in there and places where you just need to drop in more images and the like, and the guideme script engine just has so much flexability, you can really just think of the maze a place to walk around while you trigger the scripts.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by Nezhul »

For encounters, I really liked how my Denial Mistress tasks worked out (where you create a template for a certain activity and tweak its parameters in runtime).
The only thing (in my opinion) is that in a maze tease tasks should be relatively short, because you tend to get sooo many of them.
I may have not understood you correct, but it seemed to me that you are making that encounters occur after you spend some time in a maze. I don't really know if I like it... It's a different aproach, yes, but it means that you will encounter a girl, and you will not find her in the same place next time. Which may work out good, actually, but my concern is (again) that the maze becomes more generic, you don't have some points of interest that you can determine your position on. Map may help it, but it seems a bit cheap for me (although I like the idea too).

About biomes, here's what I intended to do:
1) you have a few folders in your project, I intended to do Dungeon, park, forest and a house, but you really can do whatever.
2) you have a lot of images in each folder - images of roads and corridors and whatnot.
3) when you generate a maze, you bind each intersection to a specific biome. And this biome should be consistent (adjacient pages share biome).
4) you set up a specific image for each page of the maze, trying to avoid repeating images.

If done correctly, what will happen is the user will KNOW where in the world he is. The player sees an image and KNOWS that he's been here already, because this image is unique throughout the entire maze.

As for maps, I think it really is better to allow players draw it on paper if they want. ;-)
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

I see what you are saying. I think somewhere I sort of stepped a bit away from the maze being the purpose, figuring that solving the maze felt more like a function of time, and surviving the teases, for the duration it takes to find the exit. I instead wanted to have a bit of a story and some things to puzzle out in addition to maze navigation and resisting the teasing.

The dream would probably be using parts of denial mistress to drive the random encounter scripts, but for now going to try to plow ahead as I have planned.

I think the best kind of maze done with pictures at least is probably like old adventure games, you are in the village, go north to the main square, type deal. At its heart it is a maze, but the biomes, as you said, are unique enough you WILL remember being in the villa or the forest or city or whatever rather than indistinguishable corridors. I mean, many people are able to navigate MUDs and their ilk without maps or pictures, so it can be done for sure.

I was thinking in my head if it would be worth it for me to start looking more into the rogue like game genera and how they do their maps there, making rooms or places on the map and doing multiple passes. Eh, given unlimited time there are a lot of things to do.

What is cool is that if you do the mazes the way you are talking though they would have a very different feel than how I'm doing them despite them being basically the same thing. It is really neat how just a few tweaks here or there will give you really different results.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by Nezhul »

well the way Denial Mistress handles task routines is pretty easy, actually. The hard part is handling the random images and texts, and making the entire thing wark as a whole. But you are free to rip any parts of Denial Mistress, re-write them to your needs and use. Just give credit somewhere, because I like FAME! :w00t:
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by mowlboon »

got news for us desertfox? :D can't wait
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

Okay, I'm a failface. I haven't worked on it in about two weeks due to life getting busy and, well, xcom 2. You should angrily email firaxis in protest!

I am planning to get back to it this weekend though, I'm going to cut a lot of features that I wanted out and I just need to start bulking up the regular encounters in the maze, I only have one to be honest. Story mode wise I think I have about 8 teases which can kind of go long or short depending if you keep asking for more.

Damn I need to get going with this for real. Thanks for asking, this is giving me renewed energy!
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by mowlboon »

Well you could potentially release the engine with 5 or so teases and release small packs of teases (maybe themed?) along the road
that way you get it out soon and we can test and play around a bit and you can add some content
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

Well I banged out a random tease tonight. Hopefully I can keep cooking... Looks like it took me about four hours, sheesh, maybe I'm just a slow tease writer. Anyway, I think this gets me a bit back on schedule. I think I truthfully need a little break from it for a bit, thank you again for the interest, it did help re-rail me.

I'm going to probably stop at around 6 or 7 random teases, they are having stuff when you revisit them and some randomness in there so it won't always be the same so it should be ok. I can also just cut the triggers for story mode if I can't finish it.

I do have to also do the ending, and I am about 80% certain I'm going to do it cockhero video style, probably minus the music since beat matching and all that takes probably more time than I want.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by Nezhul »

That's exactly why I went the random route with Denial Mistress. You know, I tried to make a series for 5 years, on and off. And eventually I thought about how much effort every chapter makes you give, and made a random-ish program instead.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by mowlboon »

yeah do that, I just think the themed DLC idea could be a good solution to give the crowd what they want and keep them here for a longer period of time :D

Edit:
also gives more of a personalization possibility for everyone
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

Nezhul... Yeah I totally agree with you, I've started and stopped so many projects over the years, really for anything, because you look down the road and it's overwhelming. I have issues I think where totally random doesn't work for me, I like to have some narritive going on, even if slight, or it doesn't really do it for me, I'd have a better time playing a cock hero or looking at videos. I have a short enough memory that after a month or two I'd forget exactly how everything works, which will hopefully leave me the ability to enjoy what I've done.

That said, I really like the balance of creating with the script engine playfulguy wrote, it is pretty quick to get results and start adding, and once I start typing I'm enjoying randomly throwing in a branch here or there.

mowlboon... Yeah I hear you, I've refreshed milovana for long periods of time waiting for some people's stuff. The problem is if I don't have anybody in there teasing you, you basically are walking around an empty maze for a long while until you stumble on the 'story' stuff. I do plan to do the 'dlc' route as I had some more ideas for story mode.

One thing worth mentioning is that anything from schefflera's work will fit right in here. The first thing I had up and running was a tease I converted from there to the script engine. It didn't take too long, maybe an hour? So it is pretty possible to just take all the women he has from all his mazes and get them to appear randomly much like they do in his.

It would be shorter to get up and running but I wouldn't want to copy all of his stuff.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by Nezhul »

I don't know if I already posted this idea, so I'll post it again.

In DM I was planning to make a module for narration/monologue. The idea is that I would have a file with a bunch of lines of text (a story, or monologue, basically), and the Mistress will throw them in instead of teasing lines from time to time, and the whole monologue would be given during one session.

So even with random tasks, and page generation on the fly - you can still have a non-random story development or conversation.
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by PlayfulGuy »

Stopped in to see if there was any news on this. Glad to see it's still cooking.
desertfox wrote: I've started and stopped so many projects over the years, really for anything, because you look down the road and it's overwhelming. I have issues I think where totally random doesn't work for me, ... I have a short enough memory that after a month or two I'd forget exactly how everything works, which will hopefully leave me the ability to enjoy what I've done.
We sure think alike. I struggle with the same things. I like it to be random, but I still have some idea of what's coming.
desertfox wrote: One thing worth mentioning is that anything from schefflera's work will fit right in here .....
but I wouldn't want to copy all of his stuff.
You can always try contacting him and asking for permission. I plan to do that with several teases for my own project.

Later,

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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by mowlboon »

Best would be if the DLC contains some Categories too
like

teen
milf
big tits
curvy

so everyone has a possibility to fulfill his taste, maybe some experienced teasewriter can help you? :P
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Re: [GuideMe] Random Mazes (work in progress)

Post by desertfox »

Welp schefflera is awesome and pretty much said go nuts on any of his stuff. I may think about doing a quick parser to .scr since I can work on that 'in the light of the day' and that'll bulk it out significantly.
PlayfulGuy wrote: We sure think alike. I struggle with the same things. I like it to be random, but I still have some idea of what's coming.
Yeah the details are fuzzy but as I hit questions or branches I know where it's going. Still not too bad, even though when doing a tease I get kind of sick of the image set, a week or two later I already forget whats in there.

I probably won't be able to write teases on content I'm not into, and I hate to say it but i'm pretty much all about the thin girl body type with a few exceptions here or there.

Still it is pretty easy to add in anything, the script engine is really easy to work with, so all you have to do is drop the images in the Images dir and the script in the Scripts/random_encounters dir and you are done. Scripts are really easy to write if you aren't doing anything tricky and just having people stroke/edge to pictures.

Whenever I'm finally done I'll write guides on how to add in various parts of it.

Still, i'm thinking months, in terms of release date, life tends to fill up with other chores during the spring.

Thank you all for the encouragement! It really keeps me fueled to keep going.
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