Sub Topping From bottom

[helikesitidont]

Hello everyone,

I've been a silent member here for a little over a year. I was sent here initially by my boyfriend. I was resistant to being his mistress at first and while I'm still not crazy about it, I love him and I want him to be happy so I've agreed to dominate him.

It's been very challenging however. We've had several arguments and they've all started because he doesn't seem to really want me to be in complete control. He says he does but he is constantly nitpicking and complaining about every decision I've made for us. I'm trying to be firm but he undermines me every chance he gets. We bought a cage for him and he still managed to do what he wanted rather than what I said. Before he handed me the keys, (we don't live together) I told him to put on the cage and do not remove it and went to bed. The next morning I told him he may remove the cage to do his homework (he has a teasing schedule when we're not together) and he informed me that it was already off. He said he took it off because it was uncomfortable to sleep in and that he didn't ask for permission because I was asleep. The third rule break ( I can't remember the second at the moment) was the most recent and he came without my permission. We were texting and he told me he badly wanted to cum. I sent him the water splash emoji (for this without iPhones its just a little pic of three water drops) and he took that as me saying he could do so. He didn't bother to verify he just came and then said thank you afterwards. I asked him what he was thanking me for and he told me. I punished him by not allowing him to touch himself for the rest of the week and the next time he would be allowed to cum would be by me and he would have to eat it. I told him he is grounded for lack of a better term. Which meant no sexual pleasure. This sparked a fight because he kept begging for sex since he knew he couldn't tease himself and he wanted to know when the punishment was over. My answer of "it's over when I say it is" wasn't good enough for him. That isn't the end of it but I'm stopping there because this is already a lengthy post.
I don't know what to do. I keep trying to take control and he keeps fighting me. He says he doesn't like denial be just likes to be teased. But he likes being told to maturbate without cumming across the week which of course is denial. He has told me that "vanilla sex" doesn't do it for him so I said okay we'll only do this but then he complains and says that he doesn't want this all the time. I'm at a loss of what to do. It's making me crazy. My image of a mistress/pet relationship is of me being in control of my body and his. Meaning he cannot touch me without permission and he cannot cum or masturbate without my permission. He hates that. He wants to be able to kiss me and cuddle and initiate sexual contact. While on the other hand telling me that he wants me to initiate those things. He feels that if he isn't allowed to touch me whenever he wants that it will never happen. I throw my hands up and say fine I'll just tie you up and jack you off and you can cum everytime since you don't like the denial aspect. Guess what he does everyone? Yup, he doesn't want that. The only reason is because he's afraid that I'll eventually resent him because he is the only one getting sexual pleasure. I tell him that I'm fine and that I have a vibrator. He pushes for me to just have sex with him when he is tied up because he feels that will take care of it. But what he doesn't get is that I don't get any sexual pleasure from this at all and it isn't because I'm not using my vagina to tease him with. It just doesn't do it for me sexually. The only thing it does is amuse me because of how he squirms around when he's tied up.

I'm just feeling very lost and confused. He won't be happy without this and I'm not asking him to live without it. I'm willing and I'm trying but I'm getting the impression that he wants me to do whatever I want but only picked off of the specific list of things he has in his head. Which I'm not privy to because I'm not a mind reader. I just tell him to tell me what he wants and stop saying he wants me to be in control because he clearly doesn't and of course he argues and says he does.

Does anyone have any advice? How do I stop him from undermining me? Maybe I have the wrong idea about sub/Dom relationships? Please help.

[sadisticflipside]

Sorry this is turning out so frustrating for you. It is uncomfortable and very disheartening from experience.

In my view there is.a difference between being dominated and role playing. It sounds like he wants role play and not a domme in the lifestyle sense. He is trying to guide the fantasy while it seems you are trying to do this hardcore.

My hats off to you by the way for giving it a try. He is lucky to have someone who is willing to try.

I would suggest agreeing to a time where the roles are off. Then talk about the experiences and share expectations. He likely doesn't realize the difference between your take and his. And, he also needs to recognize that if he really does want you as a domme, he has to choose to submit. You can only do so much before it becomes ethically questionable and treacherous for individuals who may not be fully acquainted with the possibilities.

Lastly the ultimate power lies with the sub. With out their submission there is no domination. And because when this all gets real they are most at risk of physical and mental harm in the immediate sense they have the ultimate off switch. Make sure as the domme the kill switch is clearly defined. Bottoms and subs tend to use a safe word for slow down, and a safe word for oh god my liver, please stop inserting the shark.

There is a strong tendency in lifestyle slavery to not safe word. If that is the route you to take, define one anyway. Just sayin.

Hope this helps. And happy new year.

[philo]

Sounds like he does not know how lucky he is.
Also I agree he likes role play he does not want to be a sub or for you to truely dominate him.
You could try the points system, it is how a lot of blokes function.
They keep a subconscious tally in their heads so if you have accumulated more points than them in say doing the washing up they are happy to do it but if they have more points they will resent it if you ask them to.

try making a list of what you both like and assign points to them. Keep a tally of the points for a bit and try to keep them balanced. It is not really a long term strategy, but it may help to balance things out and give a clearer idea of what each of you values.

[manwithcape]

Wow,
You are awesome!
Seriously, best girlfriend ever.

I've read both your posts on these forums and I am amazed at your actions.
Yoour boyfriend doesn't understand half how good he has it and yes, I am jealous.

About your problem:
Everything in BDSM boils down to knowledge and communication.
Sit your boyfriend down and let him read these posts.
Since you blindfold him to not let him see your facial expression I think you have trouble talking to him.
Your texts however tell us a lot. Write the texts for us but then show them to him as well.
The solution to the problem is something the both of you need to work out.
If you can't I'm sorry to say but then resentment will build up and your relation will suffer and break, your sex life allready is breaking since you no longer enjoy it.

What I also suggest is meeting up with some kinky minded people.
Ask some real people in similar situations how their relations work, how and when they maintain control.
If you send me a personal message I'll try and bring you in contact with your local community.
I may also share some ways in which I demand control but I think most of those won't work for you.

Cheers,
Marlon

PS: You have really gone above and beyond.
Your boyfriend can't blame you for anything. Bad commmunication and sending you here instead of explaining what he wants is childish and a recipe for disaster.
I think (without knowing him) that he is stilll ashamed of his desires and until he works on that you can't build a good D/s relationship.

[Weabols]

!

[sbc12345]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone have any advice? How do I stop him from undermining me? Maybe I have the wrong idea about sub/Dom relationships? Please help.

Hi Helikesitidont,

My big question would be (which you should answer to yourself): Do you get anything out of this? From your nick, I'd say no. Maybe you're lacking the sincerity, taking what you want out of this, and makeing sure he complies. Is he willing to do for you what you want, even when he doesn't enjoy it: Would he kneel, worship you, lick your feet, legs (or other more obvious things, but if I were you, I'd make him beg for that :), massage or pamper you, even when there is no direct gratification for him?

Ask yourself: Are you maybe just acting along, and allowing him, in a sense to selfishly use you to fulfill his desires? In that case, ask yourself where is the you in that relationship? If he truely wants this, you have to make sure you get your part. Maybe its not really about submission from his side, but rather the kinky role play. That's fine too, if you're also into that.

Engaging in BDSM doesn't mean you have to start with a total power exchange (TPE or 24/7). There are many other forms. Inform yourself, and discover the world away from porn, and the stereotypical media portrait of BDSM. (IMO a large part of what you see, and have in your head, is just fantasy, or really exagerated.) Start slow, and find out what you want and like, and confront him with that. (And I don't mean just sexually.) Negotiate a timeframe, say an evening or later a whole weekend. If you don't assert your power, and he keeps undermining you, you'll be merely a tool to act out his fantasies. And a true domme doesn't want to be a tool.

So look into yourself. Should you find this is not the right thing for you, you maybe have to rethink the whole relationship. (Maybe the two of you are better off each with someone else. Lets hope not.) Just let him know that you don't want this this way, if it is not fulfilling for you.

Maybe all he wants is to from time to time for you to exert some kind of power over him.
In that case negotiate scenarios, which you might later act out. Let him tell you about his fantasies. And more importantly, think about yours, and act them out. Make clear: You deserve this. But bear in mind not all fantasies have to be acted out. Some stuff better stays there. :)

Most likely he is just scared, I mean to completely give over control to another person is a huge step to take. Ask yourself how would you feel... The heart may say yes, but the mind may still say no. The wish for submission may be there, yet there may be qualms. It's your part to allow him trusting you and makeing it safe for him to let him be put into your hands. Make him understand, that you are acting in his best interest, and that if he feels he wants this, is safe in it. But once he commits, he only can have it your way. Else: No! Which still means that there must be a mutual benefit. Domination is hard, submission even harder IMO. As others have pointed out: Communication is key. You need to talk (and not argue). A lot....

I hope these are some helpful pointers for your thought process.

[Nezhul]

What I think that It's a really huge leap to try getting into lifestyle dominating without experience. For both partners, and for you especially because Dominant is the HARD role, and SUB is a very easy one. Being submissive is much easier than being just a partner without a kink, because all the decisions are made for you and you only need to roll with it.

My advice is - you are going too fast. Chill a bit, and start slow. Start by getting into domination in the boundaries of bedroom only. It doesn't mean bondage and stuff. Make him wait for what he wants until you agree for it. Make him please you and follow your demands, even if it's just an illusion and you know you both want it - order it yourself, and the magic of domination is already there.
Then when you are quite certain in that area, that you can lead a sexual encounter - start introducing elements outside of bedroom as a rolepley to start with. Certain attitude, certain playfullness that guys adore in dominant women. Don't try to be a boss of him - it's impossible. Not at the start it isn't. Instead be the object he wants to adore and please, the princess so to say. Don't act as if he owes you something, don't act as if you are in charge, but make a point that you are the one who makes decisions and you need to be kept in a good mood to make a happy ones.
Don't go for hard stuff right away, like chastity. You are clearly BOTH not ready for it. Make it roleplay to start with.
He may think he wants big stuff, but what he really wants is the realization of a fantasy, and big stuff like chastity and dominant girlfriend are just bright spots that his mind is concentrated on. Fantasy is always brighter than reality, and always more radical. He doesn't need it right away.
By being a domme you must NEVER forget about your own desires. The realizarion of your own desires is what a domme should do. SO if you want a good romantic evening - make him do it. You need not be in charge as long as he thinks you are. Even more so - maybe you want to be submissive yourself - make your "sub" please you by the way of dominating you. There's no limits, but what's important is to always remember your own ideals and needs, and NEVER put them beyound of his ideals, because then you become not a domme but a slave to this relationship, and you both will feel it and know something's fake and wrong.
Stay in a good mood (as much as possible). If he fails to do what you tell him - don't get upset. It's a game and you need to play it through. Think of his sucesses and failures as a sub as points. Make him know that your mood will always stay light, but that the consequences for him will be there nevertheless. It's hard to put a finger on it, but the point is that you must make him feel bad for letting you down, and strive to live up to your demands to keep you happy. It's all in the mind, not in the voice, and not in the words.
Never give him a sign that something got to you. If he came without permission don't express you are upset with it. The way to handle it is that "he can do nothing to upset you because you owe him, and you are happy with him, BUT clearly he needs some training. Or a reminder that what he did was bad.". Remember, he can do nothing to offend or upset you. His disobedience to you is not offending or upsetting, it's something that he'll pay for later.
The hardest thing here would be establishing this position and making him aware of the rules without actually presenting him with a written list of them, because that will clearly be a mood breaker.
Make some plans. While you are inexperienced you should make plans, then it'll be natural. It's really hard to respond properly as a domme when you have no experience. For each of your demands make a short plan like:
1) what will you ask of him today
2) how will you react if he approoves/disapprooves of your demand
3) how will you react if he fulfills or fails it?
4) how will you punish or reward him?
This way, even if he comes without permission you are not only NOT shocked or upset by it, but already have a planned and thought of developement. Ina light voice: "Oh, so you did cum? Did I tell you to? I don't remember telling you to, baby. So what with those drops on IPhone? No, I'll need to think of something now..."
Choosing punishment is by far the hardest thing. A good punishment should:
1) express your displeasure
2) Be scary enough
3) make him excited rather than scared or upset. This is the hard part.
4) be doable. Simply extending his denial while he couldn't even last that long simply means you will get another failure, and not only that but you couldn't even punish him for the last one.
The simplest punishment or reward is verbal. Again, it doesn't mean you should shout or be upset, you can let him know he did very badly in any voice. You could take a position of a child that didn't get the candy she wanted - he didn't make you happy by obeying properly. Unhappiness of a girlfriend is a good strike to the balls. The other option is denying his fun. Let him take you to the dinner, after which normally he will expect sex, but tell him that he's punished and you don't think he deserves it. Again, if you want sex yourself you needn't make this really hard, but make him WORK to get you. Make him know he's paying for his mistake by all that extra work. Make him talk you into it, promice you things and stuff, and then go have the sex if you want. You don't loose anything but you made a point and fucked with his mind.
Or even in a bedroom after all the foreplay when it's time to actually do penetration, tell him you are not sure he deserves sex tonight because he's been a bad boy and came without permission, so you will think about it while he licks your pussy some more. Make him wait, threaten him he might not get the pleasure he wants today. See what he's ready to do to change your mood and give in eventually. AGAIN, start slow, and always make sure that the roleplay is there, but the normal result is still there too. Delay the pleasure, not deny it completely. Later you may start doing it.


What a good domme needs to be (IMO)
1) Coquette. Alter hot and cold. One minute you seem like he's got you and you are going to kiss him, the other minute he doesn't get the kiss and sees that you actually want to go home now. Just when he starts to panic that you actually gonna give no kisses - you turn warm again and hint that kisses may very well follow. But not right away. That is coquette attitude, and it is really helpful to keep his mind on edge.
2) Be patient. Even if you want to just jump on him and drag him to bed, or give in to his romance right away - you'll need some patience to make him feel like it's actually your decision that he needs to work for.
3) Be yourself. Dommes are often depicted as a "Bad boss bitch", "Strict teacher" and stuff. DON'T try to be more strict. It'll be fake. Be yourself, but play the game. The game where YOU is more than HIM. But it's still a game.

And at last - if he starts saying something like he wants this or that, that he wants you to be more agressive, more dominant, etc etc - tell him to shut up and have fun. THIS is your way, YOUR way as a domme, and YOUR way is what matters. If you want to take is slow - You will take it slow and he'll have to go with in or not bug you with the dominant stuff at all if he can't take YOUR way for himself. Tell him that if he can't even go with your flow, how does he plan to be a submissive to start with? It's YOUR pace that things will develop in, and it shouldn't be his place to make any decision. This is what true D&S is. Not trying to be someone you are not. EVERYBODY can be cool dominants - domination is in the human blood. It's what our kind DOES. But people mistake it for outer fetishes and ask too much right away. TAKE.IT.SLOW.

Cheers!


p.s. as always - too many thoughts. If you want to talk to me some more you can ask here or PM, but i'm rarely viewing forums.

[skrote]

Hello everyone,

I've been a silent member here for a little over a year. I was sent here initially by my boyfriend. I was resistant to being his mistress at first and while I'm still not crazy about it, I love him and I want him to be happy so I've agreed to dominate him.

I can relate to this. My wife was not into BDSM at all (she still is not, but she does enjoy T&D)

It's been very challenging however. We've had several arguments and they've all started because he doesn't seem to really want me to be in complete control. He says he does but he is constantly nitpicking and complaining about every decision I've made for us. I'm trying to be firm but he undermines me every chance he gets.

We went through a brief period of this. My wife (at the time my girlfriends) solution to this was to simply stop the teasing, and to stop the dominating. It changed my tune very quickly. The other thing that really changed it was a program called fond of words. We also had a long distance relationship, she used the program for writing tasks. Writing lines has proven a very effective punishment for me. I hate it, but it is something that is verifiable, that is boring, and that can be made more "evil" with options. Now we use a site called writeforme.org, or writing by hand. This can be made worse as well by having him alternate colors etc.

We bought a cage for him and he still managed to do what he wanted rather than what I said.
This sparked a fight because he kept begging for sex since he knew he couldn't tease himself and he wanted to know when the punishment was over. My answer of "it's over when I say it is" wasn't good enough for him.

We have several cages, but rarely use them. If you are going to do it, what we did in the past while apart was to use those labeled zip ties to confirm lock up. That way he can get out in case of an emergency, but you can confirm he is still locked via skype etc. Personally I am a terrible liar. My wife simply looks me in the eyes and asks when my last orgasm was, or if I touched myself. She would know. We do plan on getting a custom made cage for long term wear at some point, but it is not a priority.

Had I ever begged, or made a comment like it's over when I say it is over, would not go over well. One thing (other than writing lines) she implemented in the past in a similar scenario is requiring me to earn 100 "Pamper Points" I was not allowed to ask for points. I just had to be on "good" behavior, and pay alot of attention to her. She awarded them arbitrarily, and she really drug it out. I would write her poems, massage her feet, I even did a full pedicure for her after 3 months. She did this to remind me that in the D/s dynamic, it is about her not me. Maybe something like that will work for you?

I don't know what to do. I keep trying to take control and he keeps fighting me. He says he doesn't like denial be just likes to be teased. But he likes being told to masturbate without cumming across the week which of course is denial. He has told me that "vanilla sex" doesn't do it for him so I said okay we'll only do this but then he complains and says that he doesn't want this all the time. I'm at a loss of what to do. It's making me crazy. My image of a mistress/pet relationship is of me being in control of my body and his. Meaning he cannot touch me without permission and he cannot cum or masturbate without my permission. He hates that. He wants to be able to kiss me and cuddle and initiate sexual contact.

At the end of the day, if BDSM is the only way he can get off, that may be a show stopper. If that was true for my case I don't know if my Wife would be able to deal with it. At the same time, we never had a rule that I couldn't kiss her, or cuddle etc. The sexual contact however was always per her authorization. Any relationship, even BDSM, requires being attentive to the other person's needs. I hope he does do what turn you on.

While on the other hand telling me that he wants me to initiate those things. He feels that if he isn't allowed to touch me whenever he wants that it will never happen. I throw my hands up and say fine I'll just tie you up and jack you off and you can cum everytime since you don't like the denial aspect. Guess what he does everyone? Yup, he doesn't want that. The only reason is because he's afraid that I'll eventually resent him because he is the only one getting sexual pleasure. I tell him that I'm fine and that I have a vibrator. He pushes for me to just have sex with him when he is tied up because he feels that will take care of it. But what he doesn't get is that I don't get any sexual pleasure from this at all and it isn't because I'm not using my vagina to tease him with. It just doesn't do it for me sexually. The only thing it does is amuse me because of how he squirms around when he's tied up.

The fact that you even try to accommodate this speaks volumes of how much you care for him. I do agree that overtime resentment could set in. If you don't get off at all while he is in bondage, I would stick to the teasing and leave him denied. and/or, tie him up tease him, get yourself off with the vibrator, and then lock him up. If his squirming amuses you, my goal would be to make him squirm more.

Some people like the quote system, he gives you X number of orgasms for every 1 he gets

I'm just feeling very lost and confused. He won't be happy without this and I'm not asking him to live without it. I'm willing and I'm trying but I'm getting the impression that he wants me to do whatever I want but only picked off of the specific list of things he has in his head. Which I'm not privy to because I'm not a mind reader. I just tell him to tell me what he wants and stop saying he wants me to be in control because he clearly doesn't and of course he argues and says he does.

Does anyone have any advice? How do I stop him from undermining me? Maybe I have the wrong idea about sub/Dom relationships? Please help.

Like others have said, a heart to heart is in order. So many women would have already gone running the other direction. Some people utilize salve contracts maybe that will work. I would suggest something basic in writing, and not because of a need for a contract. Most men are visual information processors. That means anything you talk about may not be fully processed. If you have it written down, then it is visual, and audio and will sink in more.

Another response suggesting the role play may be valid as well. What is it he really wants? I suspect though, it is the D/s. Believe me once someone is teased and denied effectively for a longer period of time, there will be a part of him begging to NOT cum, even when he is begging to cum. It is a delicious pardox.

So in summary my advice would be the following:

1. Have the heart to heart
2. Put basic agreements of the D/s relationship in writing, not necessarily as a contract but as a communication exercise
3. Require him to do some pampering type of things. One thing I often do is wake my wife up to a foot massage
4. Have him write some stories so you can get into his head. Maybe he can massage you while you read it.
5. Figures out 2 or 3 things that are actual punishments (line writing, corner time, kneeling on rice etc)
6. Make sure he does what ever it is you need to feel fulfilled too.

Lastly, be realistic with yourself. If you cannot find a middle ground of some kind, the relationship long term may simply not work.

I hope this helps, and thanks for sharing.