poketeased - inappropriate?

[SexualChoc]

I was away

sigh

I understand why Seraph0x took down the tease
we must be amazingly vigilant against child porn
but as a huge fan of hentai/anime and cartoon porn
I personally do not agree.
However I do support our adminstrator even while disagreing

It seems that much of anime porn can not be be used in a Milovana cartoon.

Most sites are very strict about underage porn and fantasy anime seems to be an exception there are many, many sites that allow posting of this material
so while the original characters in a show..

the pictures are NOT the characters in a TV show!!!
no where do the Simpson's appear naked or family guy or
heck Cinderella...or the other 100's of show "knock off's"

sigh.
shrugs
and goes back to supporting Seraph0x

[seraph0x]

How are offline teases affected by this ruling?

These rules include all entertainment content on the site. That means including teases, offline teases, videos, links to videos or other websites, stories, etc.

The only place where minors would be ok to mention is in serious discussion on the forum. You are generally allowed to talk about issues surrounding child protection, being a parent etc. Make sure the discussion stays within legal bounds though - we have to delete posts that are obscene or advocate breaking the law.

On a personal note: My belief is that any activity between consenting adults should be allowed. That would include so-called simulated underage content (like cartoons, anime, 3D animation), where no actual minors were involved in any way. So it might seem hypocritical for me to ban content like that even beyond the legal requirements. The reasoning here is this: Milovana presents itself as a place to acquire new tastes ("For the Explorer at Heart"), so we aren't just about the fulfillment of existing fetishes, but the exploration of new ones. Obviously pedophilia in any form is not a fetish we want to have any role in promoting. Hence the ban. I can certainly sympathize with anyone who would advocate us to stay as far on the side of free speech as we can and I would respect that position. But everyone has a limit and suppose this would be mine.

[Sexytimes 5]

>moralfag
>subjective morals

[/thread]

Should I assume you are talking to me since you posted right after me? I just want to check before I type you a targeted response. Don't want to jump the gun and attack you unjustly. Please elaborate if you could be so kind and I'll get back with you.

[breathplayslut]

so while the original characters in a show..

the pictures are NOT the characters in a TV show!!!
no where do the Simpson's appear naked or family guy or
heck Cinderella...or the other 100's of show "knock off's"

sigh.
shrugs
and goes back to supporting Seraph0x

But that's just it - they *are* the characters in the show. Perhaps not the original authors, or the orginal content, but they are most certainly the same characters. I'm sure as a hentai fan, you've seen caricatures of the Simpsons in porn - and I'm just as sure that you immediately recognize the characters by name - from where (?) - the series where they originated. You can call him whatever you want - but at the end of the day, Bart Simpson is always going to be Bart Simpson - and he is recognizeable as Bart Simpson. That does not make any caricature of his likeness any less than the original, where the basis for the character originates from in the first place.

You have a right to disagree, and I respect that right. And thank you for stating it in a calm, clear, rational manner.

[les]

Why would someone want to make a tease of under 18s??????
So why are we arguing about pictures that may or may not be considered as such, regardless of the characters/models actual age.

There are thousands/millions of pictures that are available and not a problem.

In the main a good tease has a good story.
Just like films/books etc

We see lots of threads about bad prose in a tease, dodgy pictures do not improve them.

So if you think the models/characters are of dubious age don't use them.

[LittleElfBoy]

>moralfag
>subjective morals

[/thread]

Should I assume you are talking to me since you posted right after me? I just want to check before I type you a targeted response. Don't want to jump the gun and attack you unjustly. Please elaborate if you could be so kind and I'll get back with you.

I did. I didn't feel like putting in more, because your only argument were subjective morals. I can understand the legal problem for the site and to put it bluntly: I never saw a problem with any of the removed teases and I don't give a fuck if other people think they're abhorrent. But feel free to throw another hateful rant at me, I could use some lulz.

[janmb]

Jan, come on man. You can’t possibly think that an adult who desires children in a sexual way is comparable to the bigotry experienced by gays.

Of course it is comparable... they are both sexual alignments... A pedophile don't choose to get turned on by kids... Just as a gay doesn't choose to get turned on by people of their own gender...

These days there may at first glance seem to be a massive difference between the two, but hell, wind back the clock a few years, and gays were considered every bit as dangerous, damaging, despicable, and not least against the will of god (yes, I refuse to write that with a capital letter) and a lot even think it still is....

So no, my point isn't to make pedophilia ok. It is not. The point is that gays have been looked at in very much a similar way until very recently and in many places in the world they are still executed for it... Which is in fact more than we in most cases do to people who are caught abusing kids.

Food for thought...

Nothing wrong with watching kids be exploited sexually. Holy shit man! You are over the top this time. Nothing wrong with child porn.

Who the hell said that? Try reading my posts again, with your eyes open this time...

Ask yourself this question: Would I trust a so called “Pedophile” with the children in my life? Answer=“Hell No!” Children must be protected.

Absolutely, and no one is saying differently.

The point though, which you and everyone needs to grasp through your curtain of emotion, is the difference between pedophilia as a sexual alignment (a mental pattern of getting turned on by kids) on one hand, vs. living out that alignment by abusing kids on the other hand.

The former is a thought, and involuntary ones at that. Thoughts can never be controlled or outlawed.

The latter is an act, and the only aspect of this that ever hurts someone. Of course there is reason to worry about someone who is known to have a pedophile alignment, but there's simply not much to do about that, short of keeping them as much apart from children as possible.

It is obviously a very undesirable thing to have people with pedophile alignment in society at all. But as long as it cannot be cured psychologically (which decades of trying to "cure" gays have proved pretty well that it can't), we simply have no means of avoiding or reducing the number of people with this particular alignment.

Which in turn means it's pointless to debate our hatred toward their actions as if their alignment could indeed be changed or prevented.

[janmb]

Example: In your example if the model is 18 or over it is legal. I guess if she is 19 and still in junior high school she must have flunked a lot of classes .

Wow, that is sick.

I wasn't referring to a 19 year old model posing as herself in school. I was talking about a 19 year old model posing as a younger student. In short, playing a role where she in character is younger than her real age.

And yeah, it kinda makes sense that this is legal, given the vast amount of schoolgirl porn out there, which is clearly not subject to underage porn laws.

Which again goes to show the INTENTION behind the laws though, as flash said earlier in this thread: Prevent children from being abused sexually. Someone jerking to a 19 year old, 12-year old lookalike school girl hurts no children directly at all. Someone jerking to a 14 year old girl, looking fully developed, and playing the same role, does.

The only place where the law no longer follows that sensible pattern is for cartoons, where - contrary to real people - portraying a younger image than you really have is in most cases not allowed.

[Listering]

Im watching this thread for a long time.. and I wanted to stay away, far away.. but I cant and even if nobody cares about my opinion for sure I have to write it.

First of all, I understand why some tease was taken down.. we got laws etc. and if admins want to be careful, Im totally fine with it. Afterall its their site.

But I want to target those so called moralists here. Can you stop for a second, and think about what you are saying? Or read everything you wrote? You are on the site where raping people, torturing them and humiliating them is considered as exciting behavior.. you think that when you fight here against child porn you are saving anyone? Sorry to destroy your dreams.. but no.. you are not.

And I will be even more evil to your ideals.. fighting against child porn fiction, art and even photos is in fact harming children. You think that when you delete all the stories from the internet, involving anyone younger then 18, paedophilia will dissaper from earth? People will just go to streets at evening.. and guess what happens there. You can object that if you delete and ban photos, nobody will take pictures of kids. Do you really believe it? If those big organizations focusing on children porn bussiness wont be able to spread photos.. what do you think they will sell hm?

Now you can tell that this is all bullshit, based on opinions. Ok why not.. then I dare you to ask any psychologist who works with pedophiles.. anyone really with some experience, and ask him if child pornography is bad. Guess what they answer to you. Just a little hint, imagine that in one week there will be no porn, no naked girls on the internet.. just nothing. Have you ever been in middle Africa? Kongo maybe? You should visit this lovely land and try to moralize it.

There is thick line between fantasy and reality. Dont fight against the fantasy on the internet, fight against the crime outside. Saying "people rape children because they read it in story" is like saying computer games kill people. Its exactly the same bullshit. Rapist will rape, no matter what he see on the internet. Killer will kill no matter what he is playing in his free time.

[janmb]

Good post Listening

Production of child porn is bad because it abuses the kids involved. Similar fantasies though, such as cartoons as well as legal models playing young character roles, can only ever be a positive thing. In the degree it can ever make a difference at all, which I really don't think it does, it just might make some pedophiles get to live out their needs with their right hand rather than by going out abusing real kids

[Sexytimes 5]

Of course it is comparable... they are both sexual alignments... A pedophile don't choose to get turned on by kids... Just as a gay doesn't choose to get turned on by people of their own gender...

Yes, but that doesn't compare with what the gay community goes thru in the slightest Jan. Pedophiles either want to hurt kids or do hurt kids. Not even close to two consenting adults getting together. I understand your points but in the case of pedophiles we don't really need to understand them or care if they were born messed up.

Nothing wrong with watching kids be exploited sexually. Holy shit man! You are over the top this time. Nothing wrong with child porn.

Who the hell said that? Try reading my posts again, with your eyes open this time...

It's important that people come to terms with the fact that pedophilia as a sexual alignment is nothing that can or should be fixed or scoffed at. We did that with gays as well until fairly recently, and these days fortunately most people agree that it is not something that is voluntary, wrong, can or should be fixed at all. The very same goes for pedophiles. There is nothing inherently wrong with someone getting sexually aroused by watching kids.

Ok! In the context of our discussion I took it as such based on what you said. It seems like you think it is ok for people to look at little kids nude or in pornographic settings but I guess maybe I misunderstand the point you were making.

The point though, which you and everyone needs to grasp through your curtain of emotion, is the difference between pedophilia as a sexual alignment (a mental pattern of getting turned on by kids) on one hand, vs. living out that alignment by abusing kids on the other hand.

The former is a thought, and involuntary ones at that. Thoughts can never be controlled or outlawed.

The latter is an act, and the only aspect of this that ever hurts someone. Of course there is reason to worry about someone who is known to have a pedophile alignment, but there's simply not much to do about that, short of keeping them as much apart from children as possible.

Pedophiles by definition either desire kids sexually or actually abuse them sexually. Nobody thinks that a thought should be outlawed. It seems to be only common sense to realize that this alignment can only be properly entertained if kids get exploited or abused. That was all I was trying to convey. I don't think people should be persecuted for their thoughts. I think most anime teases on the site are probably ok and not pedophilic but we should pay attention. There isn't a need to make the teases with age descriptions under 18.

It is obviously a very undesirable thing to have people with pedophile alignment in society at all. But as long as it cannot be cured psychologically (which decades of trying to "cure" gays have proved pretty well that it can't), we simply have no means of avoiding or reducing the number of people with this particular alignment.

Which in turn means it's pointless to debate our hatred toward their actions as if their alignment could indeed be changed or prevented.

The gay parallel you are using seems wrong to me. Gay people don't want to hurt kids. I get the basic idea about societal persecution. In the case of pedophiles there just isn't any reason to accept it or make a place for them to get their fix. Kids can't be objectified for them. Kids are innocent and can't ever be allowed to be exploited. If there was a way to fulfill their desires without hurting a kid in the process it would probably be ok. That’s what some of the anime movies out there basically do but everyone should agree that it isn’t a good fit for our community to promote in any way the objectification of children.

We have to draw the line. People who fantasize about rape, incest, kidnapping, and many, many other things which are illegal in reality and seem abhorrent to squares can find legitimate sources for their fantasy. The difference is that nobody is actually being hurt. It is a fantasy.

In the case of people desiring children the fact is that almost every setting would require an actual kid to be exploited. Not in the case of cartoons but it is obvious that there is a thin line to be walked in the world of anime. I like some of the teases and don’t think it will be very hard for authors to continue making them without a pedophilic theme.

When you stop and think about kids who get abused or exploited it changes your whole perspective.

[LittleElfBoy]

Read this: http://www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html

>subjective morals I told you

[janmb]

Sexytimes, the fundamental point you still don't seem to get is that I discuss the sexual alignment and the abuse of kids as two completely separate entities - because they are.

The fact that pedos get aroused by watching kids does not imply child porn or child abuse. They can and do get off on perfectly normal, non-nude settings as well. Sexual alignment is a matter of emotions and thought patterns, not actions.

And that is why it is so important to separate fiction from action when discussing this topic.

You cannot possibly argue that a pedophile jerking off to a cartoon hurts anyone, directly or otherwise.

And again, the comparison to gays is all about both being involuntary sexual alignments. A pedophile has not chosen to be wired in a way which makes them aroused by kids, just like a gay has not chosen to be turned on by their own sex. And neither can choose to stop or change.

Ironically, cartoons like the ones being taken down here is among the few ways a pedo can meet their needs without hurting anyone.

[Wyatt]

Example: In your example if the model is 18 or over it is legal. I guess if she is 19 and still in junior high school she must have flunked a lot of classes .

Wow, that is sick.

I wasn't referring to a 19 year old model posing as herself in school. I was talking about a 19 year old model posing as a younger student. In short, playing a role where she in character is younger than her real age.

And yeah, it kinda makes sense that this is legal, given the vast amount of schoolgirl porn out there, which is clearly not subject to underage porn laws.

Sorry, in my haste I misread your example. I will try to slow down and be more careful in the future.

Wyatt

[Sexytimes 5]

Im watching this thread for a long time.. and I wanted to stay away, far away.. but I cant and even if nobody cares about my opinion for sure I have to write it.

First of all, I understand why some tease was taken down.. we got laws etc. and if admins want to be careful, Im totally fine with it. Afterall its their site.

But I want to target those so called moralists here. Can you stop for a second, and think about what you are saying? Or read everything you wrote? You are on the site where raping people, torturing them and humiliating them is considered as exciting behavior.. you think that when you fight here against child porn you are saving anyone? Sorry to destroy your dreams.. but no.. you are not.

And I will be even more evil to your ideals.. fighting against child porn fiction, art and even photos is in fact harming children. You think that when you delete all the stories from the internet, involving anyone younger then 18, paedophilia will dissaper from earth? People will just go to streets at evening.. and guess what happens there. You can object that if you delete and ban photos, nobody will take pictures of kids. Do you really believe it? If those big organizations focusing on children porn bussiness wont be able to spread photos.. what do you think they will sell hm?

Now you can tell that this is all bullshit, based on opinions. Ok why not.. then I dare you to ask any psychologist who works with pedophiles.. anyone really with some experience, and ask him if child pornography is bad. Guess what they answer to you. Just a little hint, imagine that in one week there will be no porn, no naked girls on the internet.. just nothing. Have you ever been in middle Africa? Kongo maybe? You should visit this lovely land and try to moralize it.

There is thick line between fantasy and reality. Dont fight against the fantasy on the internet, fight against the crime outside. Saying "people rape children because they read it in story" is like saying computer games kill people. Its exactly the same bullshit. Rapist will rape, no matter what he see on the internet. Killer will kill no matter what he is playing in his free time.

You are dead wrong. People taking nude and sexual pictures and making porno movies of children actually perpetuates the objectification and abuse of children and harms them. Don't you get the idea that children are defenseless. Everything goes as long as it is between consenting adults in the worlds of fantasy. Nobody is saying a fantasy on the internet causes anything vile to happen by itself. When talking about child pornography it is just the nature of the beast that it includes abuse of kids unless it is a cartoon.

The fact that little kids shouldn't be used in pornographic ways isn't in question. I'm no moralist! Common sense dictates that kids and porn don't belong together. Seriously! Do you have any children in your life you would like to pose for some pictures or to be used in any form in the child porn arena? I should hope not! Crazy!

So why would it be ok for adults to force children to perform in a sexual way for them or pose nude for their sexual gratification? Should it be excused because they will go crazy and go on a molesting spree if we take their kiddie porn away? Whatever!

What the hell are you talking about? Africa, taking naked pictures off the internet? We were discussing children because this particular anime tease was questionable and the issue sprouted up. Nothing at all negative will happen if kids are protected from abuse by not having child porn out there. It would actually make a positive difference in the lives of the many thousands of kids used in the industry.

Just because killers will kill and rapists will rape doesn't mean we should let kids be messed with by the animals out there who would like to hurt them. Seriously! Do you really think child pornography is just a moral point of view issue? Do you think your analogy about killers and rapists is remotely related to the issue of child porn? Do you think a therapist would tell a rapist it's perfectly fine to rape people? No Sir! Do you think a therapist would tell us that child pornography is ok? No way! Clueless!