Religion

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What is your religion?

Agnostic
11
14%
Atheist
35
43%
Buddhist
2
2%
Christian
21
26%
Deist
1
1%
Jewish
3
4%
Hindu
0
No votes
Muslim
3
4%
Pagan
1
1%
Other
4
5%
 
Total votes: 81

WendyHart
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Re: Religion

Post by WendyHart »

denton wrote:I always thought agnostic meant "I don't think there is a god because I have no reason to do so but cannot exclude the possibility that there is one." At least that's what I think.
There are actually 3 or 4 divisions of Agnostic. The most common Agnostic belief is that there is some sort of higher intelligence but that higher intelligence is so vast and so overwhelming to the individual that the human mind couldn't begin to comprehend its presence.

Before someone jumps on me, other Agnostic views do hold that their is no god, but only a 'force' at work that manipulates the universe (much like the Qu on Star Trek). Some also believe that a being we call god did once exist, but long ago left this world and we have been without-god for centuries.

There are a couple more Agnostic viewpoints, but I don't remember them right off. Google it and read the Wikipedia site on Agnostic. Wiki has a decent breakdown of Agnostic viewpoints.
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

shell wrote:
Bandit224 wrote:
Spoiler: show
shell wrote:There was not a choice for "child of God", so I choose Christian. *Smile*

He has shown me some treasures that I didn't know existed.....we go through each day together...I talk about the world he has created for me. I point out my favorite cloud shapes, trees that I find beautiful.....I tell Papa jokes....and I know that I am special to him, I hear his voice, I feel his warmth, his peace and most of all his unconditional love.
I think you've got religion and your master a bit switched :lol: People can't have too masters after all, or maybe they can.

My Massive Penis wasn't an option, so I chose Athiest.
*giggles at your pun on "switched".....even it you didn't mean it to be a pun*

Well, I do not like relgion....dislike it a lot I guess. Religion is man made. It's certain thoughts about God, that they put together in a neat little package, with rules and more rules.

Can someone have two Master's.....I think it's possible. For instance, if I were to own a submissive, first I would be their Mistress, and second Dr. D. would be their Master.....both of us answering to him, but only the submissive answering to two.

Here is the cool thing about my relationship with Papa, and my relationship with Dr. D., we discussed the name "Master" ages ago.....and it is a name given to him, that makes me happy to call him. He knows my relationship with Papa and knows that in the shower, I sing praises to to God, calling him Master. God knows who I am talking about, because he knows my heart. Papa also knows that when I am speaking of Dr. D. as my Master, he knows in which way I speak of him that way.

*softly smiles*
Out of curiosity, how can you consolidate your beliefs that religion is a human creation with your Christianity? The Bible claims it is the word of God.
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

WendyHart wrote:
denton wrote:I always thought agnostic meant "I don't think there is a god because I have no reason to do so but cannot exclude the possibility that there is one." At least that's what I think.
There are actually 3 or 4 divisions of Agnostic. The most common Agnostic belief is that there is some sort of higher intelligence but that higher intelligence is so vast and so overwhelming to the individual that the human mind couldn't begin to comprehend its presence.

Before someone jumps on me, other Agnostic views do hold that their is no god, but only a 'force' at work that manipulates the universe (much like the Qu on Star Trek). Some also believe that a being we call god did once exist, but long ago left this world and we have been without-god for centuries.

There are a couple more Agnostic viewpoints, but I don't remember them right off. Google it and read the Wikipedia site on Agnostic. Wiki has a decent breakdown of Agnostic viewpoints.
I believe what you're referring to is deism, not agnosticism.
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Re: Religion

Post by Alliteration »

Well, I see the old atheist/agnostic debate has come up again...

I view terms like "atheist" and "agnostic" as labels depending on a person's view regarding not one, but two propositions. The simplest way to explain is with a chart:

Image


So, no, under this view you cannot be an "agnostic atheist". Arranging terms this way expresses your beliefs more quickly, and with less confusion.
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Re: Religion

Post by Nezhul »

Out of curiosity, how can you consolidate your beliefs that religion is a human creation with your Christianity? The Bible claims it is the word of God.
I believe she told you that she choose christian option because it was closest, yet she doesn't like religion much because it's man-made (incl Christianity). She belives in God but not on the rules of any religion. That's how I understood it.

What can I say? If it's not a pun you are playing here - bravo to shell. Believing in god is way better than abiding to some religion. I don't believe myself, but none can doubt or proove God's existence. I'm pretty much pissed about all religions because they are clearly man-made, and it's more or less lies and rules to control people. But believing in GOD himself, without a church, without a priest, without a rules, without ANYTHING... Believing in God that accepts you the way you are - that's what Jesus actually talked about, and not the blasphemy written in dozens of saint books.
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

Nezhul wrote:
Out of curiosity, how can you consolidate your beliefs that religion is a human creation with your Christianity? The Bible claims it is the word of God.
I believe she told you that she choose christian option because it was closest, yet she doesn't like religion much because it's man-made (incl Christianity). She belives in God but not on the rules of any religion. That's how I understood it.

What can I say? If it's not a pun you are playing here - bravo to shell. Believing in god is way better than abiding to some religion. I don't believe myself, but none can doubt or proove God's existence. I'm pretty much pissed about all religions because they are clearly man-made, and it's more or less lies and rules to control people. But believing in GOD himself, without a church, without a priest, without a rules, without ANYTHING... Believing in God that accepts you the way you are - that's what Jesus actually talked about, and not the blasphemy written in dozens of saint books.
IMHO.
Yes, but this is deism. I guess you could make the case that deism coupled with Christ's philosophy approaches Christianity, but this ignores the Old Testament.
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

Alliteration wrote:Well, I see the old atheist/agnostic debate has come up again...

I view terms like "atheist" and "agnostic" as labels depending on a person's view regarding not one, but two propositions. The simplest way to explain is with a chart:

Image


So, no, under this view you cannot be an "agnostic atheist". Arranging terms this way expresses your beliefs more quickly, and with less confusion.
I don't agree with this chart, as agnosticism and atheist are not mutually exclusive; they describe different beliefs. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Huxley, one of the originator of agnosticism, "thought that we would never be able to know about the ultimate origin and causes of the universe."http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/athei ... sticism/#3 This is not an assertion of belief regarding the existence of deities, but a claim that theological theories cannot be proven empirically. Atheism, on the other hand, is the disbelief in deities. Thus there can be agnostic atheists and agnostic theists.

Bertrand Russell teapot analogy illustrates the position of the agnostic atheist: I am agnostic about a teapot orbiting around the Sun, because I cannot be sure there isn't one; however, in the absence of evidence, I assume there isn't.
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Re: Religion

Post by tBone »

I wasn't aware dictionary definitions were something to be debated. This is not my opinion on what agnosticism is, what I said is what it is. Popular culture might say it is one thing, but popularity doesn't decide the definition of a word.

Back when people were using "bad" as slang for "good". Just because a large amount of people said "bad" and meant "good" doesn't by any means change the hard definition of "bad" from "of poor or inferior quality; defective; deficient" to "satisfactory in quality, quantity, or degree".

Agnostic: a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic: Socrates was an agnostic on the subject of immortality.

So yes you can be just agnostic for certain cases. However when it comes to religion, you either practice it, or you don't. There is no middle ground for you to dick around in and say I am not taking any sides at all. It just is not there. If you claim you are agnostic and practice religion, then you are an agnostic theist because why the fuck are you practicing the religion if you don't think there is a chance it might be right. Likewise if you claim you are agnostic and don't practice religion, then you are an agnostic atheist because you either don't know or don't care enough to believe there could be a god.

This is all of-course assuming we are talking about Abrahamic religions, because Indic religions bring a lot more bread to the table than just a belief in god.

Derp.
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

So yes you can be just agnostic for certain cases. However when it comes to religion, you either practice it, or you don't. There is no middle ground for you to dick around in and say I am not taking any sides at all. It just is not there. If you claim you are agnostic and practice religion, then you are an agnostic theist because why the fuck are you practicing the religion if you don't think there is a chance it might be right. Likewise if you claim you are agnostic and don't practice religion, then you are an agnostic atheist because you either don't know or don't care enough to believe there could be a god.
No, not practicing religion does not imply atheism. You could not care, or not care enough, or not believe in a personal god but be agnostic about a deity, etc.
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Re: Religion

Post by Alliteration »

Handcuffed wrote:I don't agree with this chart, as agnosticism and atheist are not mutually exclusive; they describe different beliefs. According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Huxley, one of the originator of agnosticism, "thought that we would never be able to know about the ultimate origin and causes of the universe."http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/athei ... sticism/#3 This is not an assertion of belief regarding the existence of deities, but a claim that theological theories cannot be proven empirically. Atheism, on the other hand, is the disbelief in deities. Thus there can be agnostic atheists and agnostic theists.

Bertrand Russell teapot analogy illustrates the position of the agnostic atheist: I am agnostic about a teapot orbiting around the Sun, because I cannot be sure there isn't one; however, in the absence of evidence, I assume there isn't.
I'm well aware of what the SEP, Huxley, and Russell say about the word. The point I was trying to make was that my way is more useful..."Arranging terms this way expresses your beliefs more quickly, and with less confusion." Feel free to argue this point if you wish, but merely quoting someone else's definition doesn't do much, because...
tBone wrote:I wasn't aware dictionary definitions were something to be debated. This is not my opinion on what agnosticism is, what I said is what it is. Popular culture might say it is one thing, but popularity doesn't decide the definition of a word.
Actually, popularity is exactly what decides the definition of a word. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. The definitions contained in them are the most popular usages at the time of publishing.

Language is constantly evolving, and definitions change all the time. What I'm trying to do here is change how people use the word "agnostic" in order to make the subject a little bit clearer.

Derp. :yucky:
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

I don't think it makes it clearer, it just totally changes the meaning.
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Re: Religion

Post by Alliteration »

Handcuffed wrote:I don't think it makes it clearer, it just totally changes the meaning.
What benefit is there to saying "agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist" when you could just say "atheist, agnostic"?
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Re: Religion

Post by Handcuffed »

Agnostic atheist means, "I do not believe there is a god, but I do not think that it is a provable claim"

Gnostic atheist means, "I do not believe there is a god, and I think it is a provable claim" (although how this would work is beyond me)

Just saying "agnostic" does not indicate whether one is a theist or atheist; however, in the common vernacular it just means neither.

Similarly, saying one is an atheist does not indicate one's gnostic beliefs.

You may call it semantics, but I think it's an important distinction. Philosophy tends to be very subtle.
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Re: Religion

Post by Evals »

...And this is why I do not approve of labels. If everybody debates a label and its precise meaning, then the label is clearly not doing its job well at all, which is to classify and sort. This makes the label only good in a very general and broad way. A good example of this goes for the words "submissive" and "dominant." I've been told several times that I am not submissive, and I've heard several times that so-and-so is not dominant for various less-than-intelligent and very particular reasons reasons.

We can debate the precise meaning of labels all day long, but in the end, it comes down to what the people who most generally use the terms believe the meaning is, not what one's individual definition is. Personally, I don't feel it's possible to hit the nail on the head as to what the precise definition is, whether a person can be easily classified as one or the other. I think a lot of labels such as submissive, dominant, and agnostic have a much more broad and flexible meaning than people who use them like to think.
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Re: Religion

Post by shell »

Handcuffed wrote:
shell wrote: Well, I do not like relgion....dislike it a lot I guess. Religion is man made. It's certain thoughts about God, that they put together in a neat little package, with rules and more rules.
Out of curiosity, how can you consolidate your beliefs that religion is a human creation with your Christianity? The Bible claims it is the word of God.
Like I stated, I see myself more as a child of God, then a "Christian". Just a preference thing...not a big deal.

I have lots and lots of viewpoints and opinions about God, that don't fit into the world's perfect picture.
The Bible is one of them.
And yes, I know that THIS will not be accepted....and I am not asking that anyone accept it....it's my thinking and I'm okay with it.

First, God did not sit down with pen and paper and write, with his own fingers, the Bible and I am speaking only of the King James Version, in this post.

The Old Testament was created for a few reasons, just listing a few here.
1. To teach people how to stay alive...such as "don't eat animals that are dead on the street, it will make you sick."
2. To give us a set of rules, (commandments) to follow, while the rest of God's plan took shape.
3. To give those that wanted it, someone - a being, to form a bond with, that was bigger then they were, that would help them get through though things, like being put in a lions den and coming out unharmed.

When God sent Jesus to earth, the old testament was ...shall we say...finished, when Jesus was put to death.
The New Testament gave us one rule that replaced the others. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Each of the ten commandments can be met in that one command.

Sorry, had to say that part, before getting to the point of your question. *smile*

So, God had thoughts and words he wanted spoken to man. He would pick men out that could hear him, not a "audible" voice but just a quiet inner voice inside. He shared his thoughts with the man and the man would write them down.
I think Jesus asked people that he came in close contact with, became friends with, to keep journals....look at the first four books of the New Testament, four different viewpoints of Jesus's time here on earth.

Both through the Old Testament times and then the New Testament times, these thoughts that were given to men, and the journals that were kept, all had to go to...shall we say, to the editor before publication. We all know that editors don't include everything that the author originally had in his "book".
I think the editors were also listening to God, don't get me wrong.
But the common factor that both the authors and editors have...they are all human....

I think that yes, the Bible is the Word of God......the Word of God, written my "human's".

I think if you get the basics, the things that are repeated, the general gist of the fact that God wants to have a personal relationship with each of us, that he wants to be that someone you come to when you are happy, sad, need something, or just to talk about nothing more then cloud pictures.....that he is a God full of grace and unconditional love.......I think when you get the basics......you will begin to hear directly from God.....and that is so much more fulfilling then reading a book, written so long ago, at least for me.

My mom would disagree with me, but then she disagrees with a lot of my thoughts about God. *lol*

So, that is why I said what I did....the Bible is God's word, but written by man, with man's influence...influence on the times and era, not with the infinite foresight of the hear and now.
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