Can Electrode cable quality make a difference to DIY Estim?

[blondie88]

A few years ago I built my own Estim device following the guide of a chap named Tronic that has long been available online, and although I followed the design as closely as possible, unfortunately I've never really had many pleasurable experiences with it. I've tried all sorts of placements and electrodes from Tens pads to Rubber loops, and although I've had some nice sensations, after a while it begins to kinda hurt or the good feelings start to leave and I end up getting frustrated and stopping.

I've really persevered with it, and probably tried 50 or 60 times, but other than the odd glimmer of hope and a half good session, it never really seems to improve.

I thought maybe it's just not for me, and that the sensations just don't work with me or something, but I can't let it drop when I read of so many people having such a great time with it, so it got me to thinking, could it be that something in my build is wrong?

the only thing I could really think it could be is my cables. I bought a couple of cheap tens cables like this

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Axion-Electr ... C98&sr=8-4

and cut the ends off the side that weren't needed and skinned the wires and then attached them to my setup via terminal block wire connectors. It did occur to me how unbelievably thin the metal wires were inside the cables, could this be why I am not enjoying great sensations? Should I have bought better quality tens cables? As far as I can see all of these cables kinda look the same.. Any advice would be much appreciated!

[edger477]

Hi,

it is more probable that something is wrong with your midstim stage (transformer/resistors that change the signal). In my experience this could be caused by bad transformers, or you might have used the wrong terminals on them.

Maybe you can post more details about your device?

[blondie88]

Hi,

it is more probable that something is wrong with your midstim stage (transformer/resistors that change the signal). In my experience this could be caused by bad transformers, or you might have used the wrong terminals on them.

Maybe you can post more details about your device?

Hey thanks for taking the time to reply. I am away from home for a few days but will post again with some more info next week - I'd really appreciate any input and advice, thank you!

[Dolgian]

I feel the same as edger477,

I have multiple kinds of cables, and it does not seem to make a difference.
Easy way to find out would be for you to go buy a speaker cable at a convenience store and try with both. see if there is a difference between your cheap cable and the bigger one, I dont think there will be.

By the way, if you want to quickly try, you should probably buy some connectors (yaegoo on amazon)
it allows for you to quickly change your electrodes as well

I am personnaly using estim 2-3 times a week, I always have an HFO, and rarely have a bad feeling.
send us a pic of your setup, we will tell you what is wrongo!

[martydan69]

I use these https://www.amazon.com/AccuRelief-Unive ... 347&sr=8-3
and cut the TENS connector off the end. I attach my own banana plugs that mate with my stim box. The pads are excellent and last many sessions. For me the problem is at the ends where there is flexing. Eventually the wire strands break. I use heat shrink tubing to give strain relief, but eventually, the wire breaks. If it is at the pad connector, I just start another wire. If you use conductive loops, one solution is something like multimeter test leads that have banana plugs attached. They are sturdy and the wire is usually pretty flexible.

[edger477]

Hey thanks for taking the time to reply. I am away from home for a few days but will post again with some more info next week - I'd really appreciate any input and advice, thank you!

Also, let me elaborate why I think that... The midstim section's purpose is to transform the signal from amplifier into high voltage/low current signal and lower the current the less wire thickness is needed (one of reason why we transport from power plants power over high voltage conduits, as lower current means resistance plays smaller role). If your signal feels bad/painful that is another reason to suspect is not transformed properly (too high current is more likely to cause hotspots).

If you have multimeter you could check the voltage on electrodes, on my DIY I get over 100V even at low volume when there is no load attached.

[steelhorse545]

As mentioned above, the electrode voltage is pretty high, with a relatively low current - from what I can make out, tens currents (as one point of reference) are around 10-30 mA, and even with some relatively thin wire the overall cable resistance for that sort of current (or higher) isn’t going to given a significant reduction in voltage compared to the the electrodes voltage, unless you’ve got some intermediate connections which are really poor.

[BoundSquirrel]

I'll chime in with my 0 formal electrical training and significant eStim experience. The leads you linked are, IMO fine. I've bought TENS cables just like this off of Amazon, Groupon, and Ebay. They're all the same, and all really thin, and prone to break, and in general a pain to work with since they're all stranded cable instead of solid/braided because they're universally cheap.

I've probably made over 2 dozen cable configurations using these as my base in almost every single ones. I've hacked the ends off of these and connected them to 3.5mm mono male ends, mono banana ends, and made extenders with TENS female ends from pads or button connectors. Generally, pads are not as good since many of them use a conductive carbon fiber all the way into the 'wire' part up to the connector. I've only found a few that actually use copper wire. The button connector female ends have always been copper wire, and these are just like the TENS leads; cheap stranded copper. For male ends, I've used the TENS ends like the ones you've linked and button connectors for electrodes like conductive cloth sleeves (which can be amazing if you keep them wet enough but can get hot at the connection point if you let them dry out) and loops with a button connector, which never worked well for me.

No matter what I've done, I've never found a significant change in feeling based on one cable or another, whether I spent $8 on a set of cables or found a Groupon to get 10 sets for $7. They're all commoditized and made en mas out of somewhere in SE Asia, wherever the selling companies cam outsource the manufacturing at the best price.

I was skeptical of the thin wires too, but I've never had a cable that's bad out of the pack. I've broken plenty, and had early soldering efforts fail, and that can be pretty painful when a bad connection gets you to turn up the volume waiting to feel something then connects and zaps your junk pretty good. The best way I've found to secure connections is with 26-22 AWG / 0.2-0.6mm2 heat shrink wire connectors. Just make sure the wire is firmly seated in the metal coupler, hit the end with a heat gun or a lighter, make sure it's snug, and you've got a good, durable connection. I always wrap these connections in electrical tape as an added layer of protection.

But of all of the connectors I've made, I've had plenty of good feelings with 3 or 4 separate DIY boxes of increasing complexity as well as a 2B. I'm eagerly awaiting the Deep! by Kink to ship, and have already pre-made several sets of cables in anticipation of its release.

So, to echo what others have said, it's probably not your cables. It's very likely something in your box, or how you're connecting yourself to it. In the box, make sure you're using the right leads out of the audio transformer - I experimented with trying different leads and it makes a BIG difference in the sensation, and not in a good way. Stick to the published schematics and double check your work before connecting yourself. For connections to your body, no matter what you're using for electrodes, use plenty of gel. If you're using thin tubing, get some thicker tubing. If you're using pads, consider adding a stretchy ring to keep the pad connected firmly to your skin.

Finally, if it's a matter of it hurting or numbing over time, don't be afraid to turn the volume on your box up or down as your session goes on - every body is different, so what feels good to an author might ramp up too fast or too slow for you. For me, I tend to find that I have to usually turn down my left channel while I turn up my right channel to keep everything feeling good but not painful throughout a session. Others will tell you that they do the exact opposite - there's no 'right' answer. Do what feels right for you. Once you get it right, you'll thank yourself for your persistence.

[JakofClubs]

Unless they are damaged, the quality doesn't make any difference in feeling. All of the ones I've used eventually break internally at the banana connector, from being bent repeatedly. Putting heat-shrink tubing over it when new should help extend the life. I'd like to get a higher quality set with silicone wires.

The problems people seem to have are electrode placement and trying too hard/expecting too much at first.

See this in on placement:
https://www.sexmachinereviews.co.uk/adv ... tions.html

As pointed out recently, the common "tri-phase" connection can be both "negatives" or a "positive" and a "negative."

Tips:

• Use conductive lube like Parker Spectra 360.

• Touch your junk as little as possible when you connect up.

• Concentrate on pleasurable feelings, not expecting a HFO every time.

• It's not just press a button and come, it's build and tease.

• It can take a while to train your junk to accept the estim as pleasurable.

• It helps to abstain for a day or two from any sexual activity, especially when you are still training yourself.

• It helps to write down your connections, settings and results so you can see what worked

[blondie88]

Hey guys,
Here are the photos of my setup as promised. Both channels are wired identically.
If anyone can see anything I might be doing wrong then any input would be most appreciated!

[edger477]

Hey guys,
Here are the photos of my setup as promised. Both channels are wired identically.
If anyone can see anything I might be doing wrong then any input would be most appreciated!

What is the resistor you are using? With resistor i.e. 4 ohm + 8 ohm input on transformer you might be at 12 ohm which might be more than what that amplifier is designed for.

It looks very similar to this amplifier which states is for 2-8 Ohm. So, if your resistor is 4, you should connect red wire from 4 instead of yellow one (8), to properly load the amplifier.

[blondie88]

Hey guys,
Here are the photos of my setup as promised. Both channels are wired identically.
If anyone can see anything I might be doing wrong then any input would be most appreciated!

What is the resistor you are using? With resistor i.e. 4 ohm + 8 ohm input on transformer you might be at 12 ohm which might be more than what that amplifier is designed for.

It looks very similar to this amplifier which states is for 2-8 Ohm. So, if your resistor is 4, you should connect red wire from 4 instead of yellow one (8), to properly load the amplifier.

Hey Edger477, thanks a lot for taking the time to answer. You have correctly identified my amplifier with the link you posted. I am away from my rig now until tomorrow, but I'm really intrigued as to your suggestion. Would changing those wires really make a difference to the quality of the signal? If I am overloading my amp as you say, should I have bought a more powerful amp? Or will the sensations be just as good on this amp as long as I'm not overloading it?

I am a complete novice at this stuff, but my transformer says Com, 4, 8, 16, and I am connecting to the 1st wire (black) which I believe is coming from "Com" and the 3rd wire (yellow) which I think is connected to 8.

On the other side of the transformer I am connected to the 1st wire again which is black and says "com" and the last wire (green) which I believe is connected to 1.25

[edger477]

If I am overloading my amp as you say, should I have bought a more powerful amp? Or will the sensations be just as good on this amp as long as I'm not overloading it?

I am a complete novice at this stuff, but my transformer says Com, 4, 8, 16, and I am connecting to the 1st wire (black) which I believe is coming from "Com" and the 3rd wire (yellow) which I think is connected to 8.

On the other side of the transformer I am connected to the 1st wire again which is black and says "com" and the last wire (green) which I believe is connected to 1.25

You are not overloading it, with resistor + transformer in series you have too much resistance, meaning you are not loading the amplifier (the circuit might not be having enough load to operate properly). Just connect 4, so you have 4 (resistor) + 4 (transformer), in series that is 8, should be ok for amplifier.

Other side should be fine, that is least power/most voltage, try input first and test.

[blondie88]

If I am overloading my amp as you say, should I have bought a more powerful amp? Or will the sensations be just as good on this amp as long as I'm not overloading it?

I am a complete novice at this stuff, but my transformer says Com, 4, 8, 16, and I am connecting to the 1st wire (black) which I believe is coming from "Com" and the 3rd wire (yellow) which I think is connected to 8.

On the other side of the transformer I am connected to the 1st wire again which is black and says "com" and the last wire (green) which I believe is connected to 1.25

You are not overloading it, with resistor + transformer in series you have too much resistance, meaning you are not loading the amplifier (the circuit might not be having enough load to operate properly). Just connect 4, so you have 4 (resistor) + 4 (transformer), in series that is 8, should be ok for amplifier.

Other side should be fine, that is least power/most voltage, try input first and test.

Hey, sorry for sounding dumb but I don't understand what you are saying. If I am currently connecting my black cable from my amp to the black wire on the transformer that says "com" and my red cable thru my resistor to yellow on the transformer which says "8", what should I be connecting my 2 wires to instead?

These are my resistors by the way: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B015Z1 ... UTF8&psc=1

[edger477]

Hey, sorry for sounding dumb but I don't understand what you are saying. If I am currently connecting my black cable from my amp to the black wire on the transformer that says "com" and my red cable thru my resistor to yellow on the transformer which says "8", what should I be connecting my 2 wires to instead?

These are my resistors by the way: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B015Z1 ... UTF8&psc=1

Black stays as it is, disconnect yellow one and connect red one (that comes out of transformer at 4 mark) instead.