Fail Safe Think Tank

toolman2810 · Post by **toolman2810** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:50 pm

TANTULAS - THINK TANK (1) HOW TO INCORPORATE A FAIL SAFE MECHANISM INTO HARDWARE TO ENSURE IT CAN BE TURNED OFF IN AN EMERGENCY BUT NOT DURING TEASING ?

Hi all,
Was just thinking about Nilcum's key electromagnet. Nice simple brilliant idea. Fail safe makes good common sense. But at the same time it is being used as a tease device. If the game can be aborted simply by switching the power off on your computer then it kind of defeats the purpose. This is going to be a reoccuring theme on alot of different hardware.
It would be irresponcible to design this equipment without a fail safe but at the same time the fail safe shouldn't be so easy to access unless its an emergency.
Tis abit of a delema.
I envisage Nilcums key holder being used on both chasisty devices & physical restraints.

As a chasity key holder a fail safe is probably not that important as you always have the option of going to a hardware store & buying a hacksaw.

But as a physical restraint the options are some what more limited for emergency escapes. I don't & I know no one else here wants to be responcible for some persons death from a house fire or heart attack from equipment we have helped to design. Nor expose ourselves or Milovana to potential law suits.
Because I think it will happen. I think this concept will prove very popular & obviously the more people that use the equipment we are trying to design the more inevitable some one will hurt themselves.

I think this problem needs to be addressed at this point in conception, because it is quite likely it will greatly contribute to the basic programing parameters.

I propose a think tank towards this problem, as you all probably know a think tank is basically everyone tossing ideas at a wall.

The rules of a think tank are thus

1) Don't even think about the ideas themselves for a more than a few moments. When I think about making something I automatically base it on how I am going to make it, what is possible if you like. A think tank is completely the opposite. Think about what you would like the end result to be, completely irrelevant of what is possible

2) Nobody can criticise in anyway, anybody elses idea. When we have an exhausted list of ideas. Then we will elvaluate what is feasible & what isn't. The crazier the better.

3) Keep it simple no more than a couple of sentances, you are expressing an idea not a design brief.

TANTULAS - THINK TANK (1) HOW TO INCORPORATE A FAIL SAFE MECHANISM INTO HARDWARE TO ENSURE IT CAN BE TURNED OFF IN AN EMERGENCY BUT NOT DURING TEASING ?

toolman2810 · Post by **toolman2810** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:05 pm

To get the ball rolling,

Computer power is fail safe, turn off the computer & everything de energises. Stop Kaput, emergency diffused.
But computer also recognizes the tease has been terminated mid way through which puts a black mark or penalty against the user. Three black marks in a month & the user is banned from milovana for a month.

toolman2810 · Post by **toolman2810** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:27 pm

Scenario: Computer power controls release of our magnetic key holder, but in case of switching off computer or power blackout. Key will not be released.

Only way now to realease keys is to phone a specially set up number that automaticatically answers & sends a code like a fax machine back through phone that when held against. Nilcums battery back up power supply releases keys.
Cost of phone call is $10 donated to charity.

(I sure hope someone else is going to help with this think tank, because I am feeling a little siily

)

toolman2810 · Post by **toolman2810** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:43 pm

Fail Safe battery pack, with power failure, or emergency, all participants can stop the tease by putting two AA batteries in their fail safe battery pack & pressing the stop button. Milovana can express their safety concerns by saying the batteries & spares should be on hand at all times. But if a particular participant wanted to place his batteries in a place that is hard to find. that I guess is the participants choice.

Sephiroth · Post by **Sephiroth** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:45 pm

hmm maybe the only failsafe option is to cut a cable or something else (that's done fast) but then something else breaks down (sorry no idea what in detail...)

does anything have to break down at all?!?!
...
hmm...
cutting a cable is too easy and really quick fixed...

Post by **nilcum** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:28 pm

We don't have to be 100% failsafe. Anytime you engage in any sort of bondage play -- even with a partner -- there is some inherent risk. We just need to take precautions.

Here is another idea. Have the key attached to a padlock, then have our circuit open the padlock. This allows a user to tie a string directly to the key while not being able to pull it free. Padlocks pop up when the key is turned so I think it might make a pretty good key release. I'm not sure of the best way to go about turning the key. Might need to experiment a bit. Anyone know of a good solenoid to use? I'd like to not make my own.

Here is one more along the lines of failsafe. Have a separate microcontroller for the key holding circuit that either receives a time to live from the base or a periodic signal saying "still hold the key." This doesn't solve the problem of the second key holding microcontroller running out of juice or having some other failure though so I'm not sure it buys us anything other than complexity. Just a thought.

I'd really prefer to have the key release when current is cut. I'm not sure how to go about doing that other than by having a magnet that is always on. The very nature of that says that the the current will have to be on to hold the key.

les · Post by **les** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:43 pm

K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid

We must think of using items already in use, freely available, and reliable

Perhaps we should look to Model Radio Control?
Servos etc.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel
Seezya Les

Start with a smile it usually goes quicker.
There's no point in being miserable.
It never ever makes the day any better

Post by **nilcum** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:16 pm

Indeed, RadioShack sells an toy RC car for $10 called ZipZaps. I haven't looked at how to interface the controller to a microcontroller. I remember seeing something about it in one of the 123 microcontroller experiments for the evil genius books. No need for it to be RC though, could just as easily run wire.

les · Post by **les** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:53 pm

But we don't want any accidents with wires when squirming.
(ooh the thought of a good SQUIRM).
that may cause the fail-safe to occur.
plus many servos have a default position
maybe to open the box and may use less power for a given effect
magnets need massive power increases for very small gains
still modern rechargeable batteries are nearly 4 times the energy of an alkaline (Duracell etc)

Seezya Les

Start with a smile it usually goes quicker.
There's no point in being miserable.
It never ever makes the day any better

camel · Post by **camel** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm

For physical restraints, an electro-magnet holding a key (or paperclip attached to the key) is just fine as long as the cord is long enough to hang it from the ceiling, etc.

For chastity, or physical restraint, there could be a USB lock. A lock with a solonoid and a mini-USB port on it. To unlock, connect to the computer and get the computer to send the correct code.

The lock could be coded to become unresponsive for x seconds after an incorrect code is submitted, thus a brute-force hack program could be delivered as a failsafe, but then user would have to sit there, plugged in, for an unknown number of hours.

OR, a weak point in the lock could be engineered for a bolt cutter that would destroy the lock (both function and electrical circuit so that it can't be plugged in while the user pretends it's still locked on.)

Each lock could also a hard-coded ID number to prevent someone trying to fake out the compter by substituting a different lock.

Advanced idea would be to have a timer release function internal to the lock, but that would require a power source on the lock.

Foxhawke · Post by **Foxhawke** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:26 pm

I haven't read up on all this stuff yet, but I thought I'd toss this out.

A fail-safe could easily be some kind of "break the glass" style IMO. Something very easy to do (smash something), but that destroys the equipment such that it cannot be used until repaired (thus incurring you a cost).

This should make for an easy to use fail-safe in case of emergencies, but discourage use when you don't really have to.

Just a thought. :)

Post by **nilcum** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:02 am

True, a failsafe can just be a totally separate system. We hadn't really considered that. I tend to think that is a better idea because there could be some unforeseen failure with the first system. I read about a key in a cup of oil once. If the primary system failed you could get that key but there would be one hell of a mess to clean up afterwards.

lowielowieke · Post by **lowielowieke** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:45 pm

how about some sort of panic button?

if you press it during a tease nothing happens but if you press it after you can get out in a matter of minutes.

and if theres an emergency during a teas you need to press it 10 times in rapid succesion to get free.

in this case u can squirm alot.

omssx · Post by **omssx** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:07 am

I personally think the "weak point" ideas are brilliant.. Firstly they are extremely quick, if all i have to do is break an electrical board then i can be out and safe in the event of a fire or even an unexpected visit but in the event i get bored or too desperate during a tease I have to go through the trouble or rebuilding the equipment and buying the parts etc... so its not something im going to do.

Its also dead easy.... no need for elaborate escape machanisms, just make the parts with a weak point like an unshielded part in the device thats easy to snap, or even with a button that presses a sharp point into the PCB below therefore breaking the device and releasing an electrical lock.

Helequin · Post by **Helequin** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:40 am

Wow, I've been away a while but this has definately got me interested.

The thing with a failsafe is that it absolutely HAS to work when used. It has to sit for long periods of time without use or testing and still come off perfectly when it is needed.

That's why I think breaking something is the best plan. The replacement is penalty enough to discourage its use to just abort a tease. Moreover, it is the least likely idea to go awry for some stupid reason like a solder broke when Bob dropped the thing 2 months ago but didn't check etc. I would just say to be sure that the failsafe is breakable with nothing but what would be available in the worst case scenario (ie if your completely restrained and have no tools).

Perhaps some sort of "fuse" type idea could work. A weak portion in an electrical wire that can be destroyed simply by tipping the chair over, or a box that sits in the back rest and the occupand can slam with his back to break it.