Any christians?

[kinkydomina]

Most likely.

[mike_from_canada_18]

I used to be roman catholic but would now consider myself more agnostic than anything...but it is in my understanding that the use of the crucifix focuses not so much on the torture of an innocent man but on the sacrifice that christians believe Jesus gave their life so that all of their sins could be forgiven in the future. I just think it is very easy to be skeptics but most importantly have to keep respect and tolerance for all religions...which for the most part, has been happening here...which is excellent to see.

[free]

I find the central symbol of the Christian faith, the crucifix or cross, grossly offensive. It depicts the torture to death of a nearly naked man.

Strictly, "crucifix" means the cross with the figure of Christ on it and "cross" is simply the cross with no figure on it.

There is always a conflict between freedom of expression on one hand and negative things on the other (incitement to racial hatred, causing offense to certain people etc). It is subjective to what degree people choose to put limits on freedom of expression.

So...onto my subjective viewpoint! I think it hard to reconcile being offended by the crucifix in its religious context of reverence and respect and not be offended by, for example, violence in movies, comics, video games etc in their context of casual entertainment.

Or perhaps it is the very idea of combining the notion of reverence with an image of torture? Even if it is reverence of a sacrifice made in the name of unconditional love rather than reverence of the torture per se. All interesting stuff.

Making no assumptions about you here diddums and what does and doesn't offend you by the way. For all I know you are grossly offended by videogames etc! I just thought the juxtaposition in our contemporary culture was worth highlighting.

I do find it odd though that you go out of your way to mention this person being tortured is both naked and a man (and indeed that the torture proceeds all the way to death!). Does the amount of clothing and the gender of the person add to the offense you take? Presumably it also would be no less offensive if the person were merely tortured but not to the point of death?

Getting back on topic for this thread: I used to be a fairly active Roman Catholic and would now describe myself as agnostic. Masturbation caused me immense guilt back in my Catholic days as "Onanism" is considered a very grave sin if my memory serves me correctly on the part of the Old Testament referring to it. Breaking free from my upbringing as a Catholic, and this was an immense battle against my own mind, is one of the achievements in my life that I am most proud of.

[boyintights]

i'm christian and i think that if you put your cock in a girl vagina, then you've had sex, nothing else.

And i think premarridal sex is okay too. Jesus died for our sins remember?

[kinkydomina]

Boyintights, I think you are taking Jesus for granted. And that you should think twice before posting such statements.

[free]

boyintights, the thinking goes within Chrisitianity that you have to be truly sorry in your heart about sins in order to be forgiven. This is certainly true in the "faith and works" outlook of the Catholic Church and I am on less steady ground about the "faith alone" outlook of non-Catholic denominations but I believe it is still true. In most Christian branches you are saved by faith alone and all that is necessary to enter heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal saviour. This does not tend to mean, however, that it is okay to sin without remorse as long as you believe in Jesus. It tends to be implicit that in order to accept Jesus as your saviour you must be truly sorry for comitting a sin and try to make a genuine effort not to do it again.

If you don't think pre-marital sex is a sin then that is an entirely different matter. If, however, you think it's a sin but still think it's okay to do because Jesus will forgive you no matter what you do and even if you're not sorry: I doubt you'd find a vicar, priest, chaplain or any Christian spiritual leader that agreed with you.

What is sex? Good question. Some people think it's cock in vagina like you say; others think the bloke has to cum for it to be sex; others think oral sex and even kissing and petting count. Also, your notion of sex as cock in vagina is more than a little exclusionist for homosexuals isn't it?

Some writers on sex such as Sheer Hite believe a lot of the joy has been lost from sex because too much emphasis is placed on it's reproductive function (cock shooting a load in a vagina) and if we could get away from this notion sex would become a more exploratory, emancipatory and fun thing to do.