[discussions] why old styles ch dead?

[A Ghoul Editor]

This really does not make sense to me as an argument. The aesthetics are fine, but can be implemented poorly just like any other effect. I could make an equivalent argument that poor modern editing sometimes makes potentially compelling scenes worse.

You can dream up any argument you like, but the reality is that short-form PMVs have been a thing for at least two decades and are only getting more popular, being viewed by more people, and being created by more talented artists, while Cock Hero videos had their moment and are fading. The simple and obvious explanation is that:

• it was novel when andyp, tribes, vindicare and others did it a decade ago and it's not novel anymore and
• what made any CH good was the underlying edit, not the instructions which only appeal to a vocal minority.

Also, a casual perusal of goon twitter reveals that people who deeply enjoy PMVs and other forms of porn still enjoy jerking off for multiple hours. Despite however one defines "attention span" the reality is that enjoying porn for hours without cumming is not an exclusive characteristic of Cock Hero fans.

gooned for 14 hours.jpg (10.96 KiB) Viewed 3173 times

[WatchItDry]

Cock Hero and PMV's are not the same thing.

Gooning for hours and defeating a challenging Cock Hero is not the same thing.

Cock Hero has more in common with a well scripted JOI than with its namesake. The visual and audio cues just add to the immersion by creating a virtual partner or opponent. What the Cock Hero Creator does with these simple guidelines is entirely left up to their creativity and imagination. But can generally be broken up into three main categories.

Compilation Cock Hero - Similar material edited into progressively harder rounds.
Versus - Two or more performers vying for the Hero's Tribute.
Story - All the above following a plot to reach an ultimate goal.

What seems to be missing from the definition of a Cock Hero is just that the "Cock Hero". The audio and visual beat cues are added to be followed by the player, the viewer, the "Cock Hero". That is what turns a simple PMV into a Cock Hero.

The process is time-consuming and demands a high level of creativity, surpassing the need for raw skill. While technical skill is important, the real challenge lies in the time-consuming and imaginative process of storytelling, particularly when maintaining momentum throughout an hour-long edit. Additionally, the task of locating suitable material and music further complicates the process.

Not saying PMV's aren't creative just the end goals are different.

[A Ghoul Editor]

The process is time-consuming and demands a high level of creativity, surpassing the need for raw skill. While technical skill is important, the real challenge lies in the time-consuming and imaginative process of storytelling, particularly when maintaining momentum throughout an hour-long edit. Additionally, the task of locating suitable material and music further complicates the process.

Not saying PMV's aren't creative just the end goals are different.

Yes, you just described a PMV. The goal of a well made PMV is exactly the same as a CH video: to tease you and try to get you to blow your load before the end. But don't take my word for it. Here's a Cock Hero editor from twelve years ago who accidentally re-invented PMVs when he noticed that he can improve the aesthetics of his Cock Hero video by removing the overt, vulgar, and unnecessary instructions:

IMPORTANT : This has NO stroke meter and that is deliberate. There is no need to point out to me how everything is better with a stroke meter and "I would download it if it had one" . Its my job to TRY and get you to blow your load to my sexy video, not a complex combination of beats.

[WatchItDry]

All the different components combined are what make a Cock Hero a Cock Hero and not a PMV.

Omitting the overt, vulgar, and unnecessary instructions just makes it a PMV. Which is not a bad thing. PMV's are great and have a much larger audience than Cock Hero's. It's just not the same thing.

These core game mechanics are what make a video beatable or just something I can goon to for hours. These rules turn a video I'm just fapping to, under my own terms, into something way more immersive and competitive.

If the current creators are only interested in creating and sharing PMV's that's their own prerogative. But that doesn't diminish the need or desire that Cock Hero fans have to get lost in a fapping adventure.

[Pseudonym]

Are we back to beat meters again?

Cock Hero is broadly defined as a type of video which includes 3 crucial elements:
Porn, music and some kind of rhythm-based "gameplay", which also distinguishes it from PMVs.

It has always been very niche and small genre, but people who enjoy it for what it is, really seem to enjoy it. And I think that's great!
It's true that majority of porn consumers don't care for beat meters or they even actively hate them, since they don't find that "gameplay" fun. It then makes complete sense, that for these, it's just a useless distraction that should be get rid off. But that's fine too. Beat meters are obviously not for everyone.


I've said it last time this topic was brought up, and I will say it again:
Cock Hero will be here for as long as there are people who enjoy making and watching these videos.
And if it's true and Cock Hero as a concept is destined to die, well at least at that point, there will be no one left to care.

When you see the world is lacking something, sometimes you just have to make it yourself.
At least, that was my motivation for creating all my CH videos and other work.

[fragrantEmulsion]

Furthermore, if you, dear reader, believe that contemporary PMV artists such as noodledude, wezzam, balek, Shchokoitsia and very many others are not making CH edits because they couldn't possibly make a beat-meter, you are dreaming. Imagine looking at amazing edits with effects like speed ramps, motion tracking, animated motion graphics, and complex compositions with careful masking, all color-graded and tightly tied to the music, and thinking "ah but they don't grasp the subtle art of beat meters!"

tl;dr
Young, horny people are making mind-bendingly amazing edits all the time. All you have to do is look.

This is a based take and I agree with you.

However, I think that semantically a Cock Hero is a Cock Hero because of the inclusion of some kind of instruction. And the premise that if you do not follow all of the instructions, you fail. It's not simply a beat meter, it's a form of obedience or submission or challenge that a PMV does not completely encapsulate. However there are editors who rehash all of the videos you mentioned into Cock Hero style challenges.

A PMV is a video you enjoy. Cock Hero is a game that you play.

What this boils down to, in my opinion, is imagination. Some people lack imagination and need to be told explicitly what to do, how to play. Some people lack discipline and the instructions remind them of what their task is. I fall somewhere in the middle. I can play a PMV like a Cock Hero, but often times recently I just want to jerk off and get on with my day.

[fragrantEmulsion]

Also... new CH Descent when?

Sorry it's just going to be a 3 minute long pmv this time.

[fragrantEmulsion]

[A Ghoul Editor]

This is a based take and I agree with you.

Based? Based on what?

[chfluxfan]

A Ghoul Editor, I don't understand why you have to be so obnoxious and condescending. There are plenty of people who like old style CHs and can also chill and watch a PMV. And don't pretend that PMVs are some new novel creation when they've been around way before someone dreamed up a Cock Hero.

[A Ghoul Editor]

A Ghoul Editor, I don't understand why you have to be so obnoxious and condescending. There are plenty of people who like old style CHs and can also chill and watch a PMV.

I don't have to be obnoxious and condescending, it's gratuitous.

Most people are too nice, which is a good thing. But a side effect is that they're too reluctant to disagree and present real opposing arguments, or risk saying something uncomfortable, like for example that Cock Hero aesthetics suck and it only appeals to guys with a very specific fetish, and that's why it's not a more popular genre of Porn edits.
In fact, until I entered the discussion, nobody had presented a real answer to OP's question. All the responses ranged from restatements of the question ("it's fading because it's old") or obviously false statements ("it's too hard to make!"), which I addressed and refuted.

Furthermore, I am qualified to make this argument because I'm exactly one of the people you describe who has been enjoying CH edits as well as PMVs for a very long time. Here I am praising Cock Hero Descent by fragrantEmulsion and talking about how I've spilled my load for it multiple times and again here on our regular "CH is dead" thread. You can search the forum and find more instances, old and recent ones, where I praise specific CH edits and their creators. Some of them I've praised elsewhere or in private and they know who they are. Nobody who has talked to me before should have any doubt about how much I enjoy a lot of the work of CH artists.
Finally, I've also technically made a CH-style edit with stroking instructions. I just chose to include them as a subtitle track which can be disabled so as not to intrude on the video. If you watch it, you'll notice that the stroking instructions I made are an exact copy of the style from vindicare's Flux Dance Project trilogy, perhaps my favorite CH project of all time, despite the ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC MIASMA of the metronome click sound that pollutes the first two movies. The underlying edit is just that good and was totally revolutionary for its time in the way it did fast cuts and teasing punctuated by close-ups of hard fucking. Mind bending stuff.

And don't pretend that PMVs are some new novel creation when they've been around way before someone dreamed up a Cock Hero.

Oh look. I literally just said that. Perhaps you didn't read it:

You can dream up any argument you like, but the reality is that short-form PMVs have been a thing for at least two decades and are only getting more popular, being viewed by more people, and being created by more talented artists, while Cock Hero videos had their moment and are fading.

See how hard it is to not be condescending some times? Maybe try to see things from my perspective.

[A Ghoul Editor]

Look... perhaps it's not obvious, so here's kinda the gist of what I've been trying to say all along:

You can be bigger. You can do more. You can post harder. You can cum harder. Never give up.

[Pseudonym]

Look... perhaps it's not obvious, so here's kinda the gist of what I've been trying to say all along:

You can be bigger. You can do more. You can post harder. You can cum harder. Never give up.

It's not obvious at all. What are you trying to tell us?
To make beat meters and beat sounds more audiovisually pleasant? Do you have some ideas or examples?
Or are you telling us to get rid of them altogether since they are inherently unpleasant and unfixable?

[A Ghoul Editor]

Look... perhaps it's not obvious, so here's kinda the gist of what I've been trying to say all along:

You can be bigger. You can do more. You can post harder. You can cum harder. Never give up.

It's not obvious at all. What are you trying to tell us?
To make beat meters and beat sounds more audiovisually pleasant? Do you have some ideas or examples?
Or are you telling us to get rid of them altogether since they are inherently unpleasant and unfixable?

I want to challenge people to expand their perception.

Do you think a metronome click over a professionally mixed pop hit sounds good? Do you think a visual element from a 20yo video game over a perfectly framed and professionally shot video looks good? Look at specific videos and ask these questions. If you think they look and sound good, you should trust your judgement, continue doing that and it doesn't matter what I think. Why don't more people like it will remain unanswered.

[monsieur_so]

Look... perhaps it's not obvious, so here's kinda the gist of what I've been trying to say all along:

You can be bigger. You can do more. You can post harder. You can cum harder. Never give up.

You can, maybe, but is it reason enough? For me the real question is: should you, and why?

In the end the creators do how they please. If they like the niche aesthetics of instruction based videos, and if this niche means relatively few viewers (compared to the audience of general porn or a subgenre like PMV), what's about it?
If you look at the forum, you'll find videos specifically designed for estim. This clearly will never have a really big audience. Some includes popper prompts (personally this is not my thing at all). These are all niche genres, and this shouldn't be an issue in itself.

Why something should be liked by "many" or "more"? Do you need the other people validation for it to be good for you (I want to challenge your perception)?
Unless your ambition is to be "big" and have a greater reach. In this case, so be it, do it. But I don't see the point to be envious to another genres just because they have a bigger audience.

And for the argument about the aged aesthetics of old styles CH, with dubious graphic and font choices, I don't follow it. It is aged because it is old, like the examples of old PMVs you have shared. These PMV are also dated, not watched by the new generations: does that make the PMV genre dead?

If you look at the popular entries of PMVHaven, do you really think these videos won't appear dated and kind of broken for most of the viewers in 5 years ahead? Don't you think the Ahegao and triple split screen we can find on many of them won't feel very aged?
I bet many will find the format sucks - it is just a question of time.

Anyway, for my part I admit I'm not so much attired to the beat meter format as I was when it was new (but also not so much to porn generally). Still, some recent release with them totally work for me (right now I think of Try On by WeaselOne). And I'm also still totally adept of the instructional niche.