UK Thought crime

[seraph0x]

That means I heard how fast your freedom can slip right through your fingers. Adolf Hitler was Time Magazine Man of the Year 1938 and everyone was happy:

He was?..I didn't know that..you have a link to back up your claims?...If he was..then amazing stuff,because he was sheer EVIL in my books.

Always, here you go:

http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyea ... /1938.html

and the corresponding article:

http://www.time.com/time/subscriber/per ... /1938.html

But reading my post again: What was I smoking? What I meant was that at that point you could be a reasonable person and still support him, at least if you weren't too concerned about personal freedom.

The rest of the world was highly concerned or even scared about the developments in Germany. My advice would be simply to read the Time article.

Actually it's kind of similar to the situation now. Americans are slowly giving away their freedoms and the rest of the world is starting to be concerned. The big difference is that right now it's more of a slipping away of rights, Bush doesn't aim to be a dictator. Hitler had a conscious agenda to become ruler of the world and didn't make a secret of it either. I think that's why many feel it's a bad comparison.

To me, freedom is worth more than to most people. That basically says it all. Why do I value freedom so much? I just look at history and it seems that people who had no freedom were quite often willing to sacrifice their lives to gain it. What would you say if you gave your life to make your country a democracy and you watch from heaven as your grandchildren turn it into some weird Orwellian control society?

Not really..we have good guys,like you,seraph0x..you are a good guy.BE AS YOU CAN BE!!!..fight the bad guys,dear..

Hehe, I will.

Btw. 'dear' is something you say to your wife. Try using 'brother', 'buddy' or 'mate' instead or you'll get lots of weird looks.

And tell alpahde5 to devise some new coded where he can truly ban danny

Dude, your ban expired yesterday. Unless you start to spam again, you're free to login as danny if you like.

[seraph0x]

Regarding the petition: Thanks for opening this opportunity, diddums. Nothing would make me happier than if this site could be a platform to discuss the legal aspects of sexual freedom.

Reading the thread again I must say we didn't really manage to stay on topic very well. Sorry for that. I'm confident that next time we will be more to the point.

[ghazken]

lol..that's why the 98% sexporn sites are from US?

Care to back up that number with some facts?

Yes I can.

ConversationsResource Center


Statistics


Sex in America

* 134,000 new cases of syphilis are occurring each year, the highest infection rate in 40 years.

* 1.3 million new gonorrhea cases occur annually.

* 24 million new cases of human papilloma virus (HPV) occur annually, including a high percentage among teens.

* 63% of all sexually transmitted disease (STD) cases occur among people less than 25 years of age.

* AIDS is the leading killer of Americans between the ages of 25 and 44.

* Condoms provide virtually no protection against an STD called the human papillloma virus (HPV). HPV is the most common medical problem seen by gynecologists and causes almost all cervical cancer in the U.S.

The stats you listed above have absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand and don't prove the statement that was quoted... just for a refresher, the statement I challenged was...

lol..that's why the 98% sexporn sites are from US?

How do the statistics that you provide prove that statement true, or have anything to do with the statement whatsoever.

It would be like saying that you can prove that 10% of people in the US are homosexuals by showing statistics regarding Gun Deaths in the US... one has nothing to do with the other.


Oh, and one other point... some of the stats provided are seriously outdated. For example, the AIDS deaths statistic is from 1994. 13 years ago, since then things have changed slightly, Accidents are the leading cause of deaths in people below 34 years of age, and overall death statistics AIDS has actually dropped from the top 10 list of Causes of death overall... consider this from the archives of usinfo.state.gov

After the introduction of antiretroviral therapy in 1995-1996, AIDS-related deaths fell steeply in the United States until the late 1990s and then continued to decline more gradually -- from 19,005 reported AIDS deaths in 1998 to 16,371 deaths in 2002.

So the numers you have posted, while alarming are outdated. This is not to say that STD's are not a concern, because they definately are, but the problem in America is getting better slowly but surely, we are making progress.

[diddums]

Freedom of thought and freedom of conscience are indivisible. Take them away from one person and you take them away from everybody, forever.
That's why this Law is more dangerous than the Obscene Publications Acts which preceded it. It narrowly defines unacceptable material as sexual. That is, sexual arousal will become a banned state of mind.
When the State assumes the power to define what it is and is not acceptable to think and feel in one sphere (this law sets that precedent) it assumes the power to do so in all others too.
( Incidentally, it will still be perfectly legal to view images of sexualised murder, maiming, animal and corpse abuse even after the Bill is passed. If you have broadband, you will be able to stream it in and view it lawfully. But owning a video, dvd or photograph of the exact same material would end you up on the Sex Offenders Register and in prison for three years.)
UK political parties have just helped themselves to a big wadge of public cash without asking nicely. This kind of slapdash and draconian legislation is exactly why they don't deserve it, in my opinion.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/extreme-images/

[nice pair]

Think what diddums was referring to was the court case back 2001 which Microsoft, AOL, Yahoo and a few other ISP, which ended this year in a total ban from the internet for the daddy of spam and porn.

This person was tracked and was the main one behind the spam or porn e mails, well ¾ of this stuff was tracked back to him, he had a data base of e mail addresses and a main frame, oh for the record case was in the USA and was against a USA born person.

[diddums]

Thanks nice pair, but I'm in the dark about that case. It's clear that on both sides of the pond the moral authoritarians and censors are attacking sexual expression, though.

Yesterday in the House of Commons:
Martin Salter (Reading West, Labour)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary on her new role. Will she join me in paying tribute to Liz Longhurst, who has campaigned tirelessly since the horrific murder of her daughter, Jane, for the outlawing of extreme images of violent internet pornography, which will be made illegal in the recently published Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill? Will my right hon. Friend tell the House when that welcome measure is likely to receive its Second Reading?
Jacqui Smith (Home Secretary) I think that the legislation to which my hon. Friend refers is due to receive its Second Reading in the autumn. He is right that the campaigning of Liz Longhurst, ably supported and championed by him, has brought the issue to the fore and applied the necessary pressure to bring about those legislative changes, which will be important in offering protection in this area.


diddums adds:
Salter should know the Bill is not confined to Internet images.
The Home Sec. might have helped by describing what this will protect anybody from. The measure has been brought forward because a single convicted murderer says viewing porn made him kill. The mother of his victim believed that, and lobbied Parliament for this Law.
So we are to be governed on the say- so of a murderer.

[diddums]

Happy to report the petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/extreme-images/
opposing the new thought crime is getting a steady stream of signatures including several women.
Now four times more popular than this one:
"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to class men's lifestyle magazines as pornography" (running since November 2006),
but still half as popular as this:
"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Ban ALL Pornography: We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to make possession, production, & the sale of ALL pornographic material, illegal." (running since January 2007).

[diddums]

Join us to mark the death of another freedom.

At 2-5pm
On Sunday 25th January 2009
Parliament Square Westminster, London.

Beware the kinky porn ban!

On the eve of the kinky porn ban commencing, CAAN are back in London for another awareness raising action about laws which criminalise adults because of their sexuality. A law we don't think the Government is publicising widely enough, which all adults who possess or access pornography need to know about.
This law is based on lack of evidence and lies!

Provisions 64 to 67 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 come into effect on 26th January 2009. Despite lack of evidence, the government claims criminalising of the possession of what it calls 'extreme pornography' will reduce sex crime. In fact, what evidence exists provides grounds for thinking this measure will have exactly the opposite effect to that intended - making sex crime MORE prevalent.
This law creates harmless criminals!

This law now gives the police the power to invade anyone's home and interfere with their privacy. Convictions for possessing extreme porn will carry up to 3 years jail sentence and inclusion on the Sex Offender Register. Just for possessing an image.
This law gives murderers and abusers excuses!

Abuse is illegal, holding images of crimes is illegal and material which promotes abuse is illegal, and quite rightly so – so where's the need for a new law? This law is aimed at consensually made adult fantasy images and based on the bad excuses of a murderer. "The pictures made me do it".
What do we want? Autonomy! When do we want it? Now!

Please join us. Feel free to bring placards and banners and dress as you please, as long as it's not obscene or involving nudity. Yes, you can bring masks, chains and cuffs. Do not bring: alcohol, non prescription drugs or weapons.

If you can attend the action, or are able to assist with things behind the scenes like transporting equipment, people, or donating resources during the time surrounding the action, please get in touch with us ASAP at [email protected]
CAAN's Statement:

"We believe in the right of consenting adults to make their own sexual choices, in respect of what they do, see and enjoy alone or with other consenting adults, unhindered and unfettered by government." "We believe that it is not the business of government to intrude into the sex lives of consenting adults."

If you'd like to support this simple notion, please Sign Up http://www.caan.org.uk/sign.php

CAAN Consenting Adult Action Network http://www.caan.org.uk

FURTHER INFORMATION: The extreme porn ban commences 26th January. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/uksi_20082993_en_1 this is the commencement notice.

For anyone who still wasn't aware of this here's some links:

CJIA clauses which criminalise extreme pornography: http://www.uk-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/a ... -pb1-l1g63

Government guidance: http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/extreme- ... images.pdf

Backlash - legal advice upon arrest: http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/posts/219063/

[diddums]

Can't understand why this thread hasn't come up in the "Latest Posts" box on the Webteases page. Sorry, but I think it's incredibly important to UK users and needs signposting!

[curved]

This bill says more about poor quality government - i.e. reacting to a horrific murder of a girl in the context of sadistic sex to get votes - than erosion of freedoms. Even so the end result is much the same.

They say the people get the government they deserve - is it time to do an IQ test before people can vote?

[Incubo]

This is exactly how it starts.
Ban something that the majority doesn't care about. They won't put up a fuss because it's not something they use or want.
Keep doing that long enough and sooner or later they do ban something the majority wanted. Slowly chip away at the smaller groups and you find out that eventually there is no group left that is large enough to fight it.

Not to be overly dramatic here, but look throughout history and you see the exact same pattern repeated over and over. Almost every dictatorship was built this way. (Modern era anyway, but some in ancient history as well.)

Personally, I have no dog in this fight since I don't live in the UK, but we've already heard numerous outcries from Americans to do things the way Europe does them. National Health Care, Gun laws/bans, etc. So it's not like stuff over there has no bearing on stuff here. The short sighted people of the world aren't confined to one continent. We have 'em here too.

I wish those in the UK the best of luck fighting this because I guarentee if it passes, it won't be long before we start hearing about doing it here as well.

[Jobicek]

I think that this is something absolutely normal. I'm not saying it's good, but its normal. Humans are unable to live in freedom and still that's their ultimate goal (or maybe because of that fact). You are probably asking now "Why?" Well, in a society which lives absolutely freely there is no need for law or to repress anything - everyone comes naturally to knowing that its better to not limit freedom of others and everyone has the same ability to see difference between good and bad (and always want to do the good things). And that's something we are unable to do. When we have the opportunity to gain more power, make more money, etc. most of us use it. We don't care for people around us or "higher good". So we are damned to repeat the cycle of gaining and loosing freedom until we learn it - all of us. And I think that even then it will be never ending fight to ensure our descendants won't destroy it. And why is that? Simply because it's irrational to live in such as society. Why should one limit himself just to ensure others got their freedom when you can simply do whatever you want and not care for others because it's not yours business? You see the difference? In free society YOU have to limit YOURSELF. And when someone is unable to do so, there has to be system that will see to the elimination of such as individuals from society. And such as system will never be perfect and there is always possibility of punishing someone innocent. Your freedom is either way limited but question is can you limit it yourself...

As for USA and freedom, it's quite time since we (me and people around me) consider USA not a free country. I have it on my list of countries where it's better not to go along with China or North Korea (and many other Asian/Arabic countries). I understand that most of Americans are good people but that's the country I'm afraid of - it's law and justice.

Someone here said that you don't have to worry about law unless you are a criminal. I have to disagree with it. We have "Not knowing is not an excuse." principle around here. You have to be familiar with basic outline of you legal system to be able to tell whenever you are criminal or not. And we ensure that by teaching our children even in elementary school the basics of our law. And it continues in high school.

Fortunately we don't have problems with law around sex, but just recently there was draft of new law that basically made having a company's computer illegal. Goal was to repress usage of illegal software in corporate area and to ban using these computers for committing cyber-criminality (strictly speaking having a software that can be used or abused to do this on corporate computer is illegal). But authors lacked knowledge of this area and in the way it is now all corporate computers fits the definition (you can hack with default installation of windows or most linux distributions). It's far from your problem but I think that we are catching up :(

[Jobicek]

Wow, I just came across a draft that plans forcing ISPs to block all porn sites and all sites that links them (even search engines). I just don't know if I should laugh or cry. 20 years after fall of iron curtain and we consider censoring Internet. But then I found out that other European countries already censor it (but more selectively). Where the hell do we live?