RIP.. SC's teases

[Dream_On]

When no one is in the games room the people from said tease would jump over to whatever room has people in it, which I believe the tease told them NOT to do. So you already know these people are not following instructions, why would I want to waste my time coming up with a dare for him/her? Now I'm not saying everyone doing the tease did that, but there was a significant number of people doing it. When several of these people jump in the lounge at the same time and are all posting everything in chat the tease says to it become difficult to follow conversation. Some of these people assume that everyone in chat is only there to be a dare dispenser for them and get an attitude if they don't get dares immediately. Much of the chat community is pretty easy going, but it is very easy to get annoyed when you have constant unwanted PMs and others spamming chat with dare requests every 30 seconds.

[janmb]

Dream_on: Those are good points and very understandable. But the important thing to keep in mind is that the problem when that happens are the individuals who behave like you describe - not the tease which brought them into the chat in the first place. If SC even added a disclaimer to discourage that particular behaviour, the tease is definitely not the root cause here at all and not where the problem should be attacked.


Alliteration: Excellent post - as always. Many, and especially chat moderators, would do well to pick up on those points. Even more so since they are in a fairly blatant conflict with the general policy seraph0x has advocated on this site for years now.

[Dream_On]

I never said the tease was the problem. As everyone here seems to agree the problem is the attitude of some of the people doing the tease. Also how are the chat mods in conflict with policy here? Chat mods do not have powers on the site outside of the chatroom and the only powers mods have there are to kick and ban people in chat.

[SexualChoc]

I took them down
because I was asked to by the chat administration.

while the loss to me personally Is deep I will recover
and so will the site

I just hope it helps..



chat is not the same as it was 2 years ago and neither is this site
one must adapt or die.

I will be writing again
as soon as I get some inspiration.

[janmb]

Also how are the chat mods in conflict with policy here?

By having a general attitude that is pretty much the very opposite of the "everything goes as much of the time as humanly possible"-line seaph0x has advocated for the site as a whole for several years now.

There has been tons of requests for stricter policies regarding both the forum as well as teases - where fortunately seraph has held the very mature and sensible line of non-moderation as far as possible.

From my perspective, the approach when it comes to chat rooms is quite the opposite - instead of people growing some skin, making more chat rooms to segregate different behaviour/agendas, a single, strict no-bullshit policy seems to be the order of the day. While I fully support the need to keep spam and disturbances in chat to a minimum, a lot of people also could really use some thicker skin.

Fair enough, finding a good line for chat moderation is far from easy, but that's not really what I am complaining about in the first place. My grievance is mainly with the basic attitude, where people stand ready with the whip to smack people on the fingers at the first sign of trouble, rather than having a more laidback, relaxed approach to things.

This example, where we AGREE the tease itself NOT being the problem, and despite this, the author having been more or less commanded to remove the tease in question, is clearly very much out of line, and as pointed out earlier, very much in conflict with the attitude seraph0x tends to have about control and moderation in general. Having chat moderation affect other aspects of the site is a problem on its own too - especially since the policies are so different in the first place.

[Dream_On]

Your problem lies with the team members/admins, not with the chat mods. As I said earlier chat mods do NOT have the power to make teases invisible. Chat mods only have the power to kick and ban people in the chat rooms. People aren't punted from chat at the first sign of trouble. They are directed to the CoC and given warnings. Action is taken if they disregard the warnings and continue to violate the CoC.

I don't recall seeing you in chat, though it is possible you have been in at times that I am not there. If you do not frequent chat I do not see how you can claim to know so well how things are done there. If you have never eaten at a restaurant you shouldn't tell people the food sucks there.

[janmb]

Your problem lies with the team members/admins, not with the chat mods. As I said earlier chat mods do NOT have the power to make teases invisible. Chat mods only have the power to kick and ban people in the chat rooms. People aren't punted from chat at the first sign of trouble. They are directed to the CoC and given warnings. Action is taken if they disregard the warnings and continue to violate the CoC.

That's semantics. Whether someone is an admin or a mod makes no difference to a regular user. They are authority and responsible either way.

And they all have the power to do what was done here: Contact a user and tell them to take down their tease. That has nothing do to with technical limitations.

As for my presence in chat, that is likewise irrelevant, nor is it non-existent. I don't use chat very often since it rarely serves my agenda with this site, but I do on occasion and for a few select special events. But again, that's entirely irrelevant to this discussion, since I clearly stated, several times, that I DO appreciate the need to keep the chat civil and free from needy spammers. Although the chat room policies could very much need some discussion themselves, the primary thing here is that those policies spread outside the domain of the chat - which is not good at all, and it is very much a pity that SC chose to abide by it rather than playing this case up to seraph0x in the first place. (edit: And if you must know, one of the main reasons I rarely care to use the chat here on milo is precisely because of all the uptight attitudes governing it. I haven't ever had a single bad contact myself of any kind, but the presence of those attitudes themselves kill my desire to use them here on milo. Great site in every other way, but the chat is sadly not so)

And for reference: This is NOT personal critique against any mod or admin in particular. Although I wouldn't hesitate a second to speak my mind toward specific persons at all, that is not the case here. I have no knowledge of who handled this case so poorly, nor do I know the specific nature of the problems that lead to these actions. I am criticizing the general policy and frame of mind regarding chat rooms, not specific persons.

[DoxysTurtle]

As for my presence in chat, that is likewise irrelevant, nor is it non-existent. I don't use chat very often since it rarely serves my agenda with this site, but I do on occasion and for a few select special events. But again, that's entirely irrelevant to this discussion, since I clearly stated, several times, that I DO appreciate the need to keep the chat civil and free from needy spammers. Although the chat room policies could very much need some discussion themselves, the primary thing here is that those policies spread outside the domain of the chat - which is not good at all, and it is very much a pity that SC chose to abide by it rather than playing this case up to seraph0x in the first place. (edit: And if you must know, one of the main reasons I rarely care to use the chat here on milo is precisely because of all the uptight attitudes governing it. I haven't ever had a single bad contact myself of any kind, but the presence of those attitudes themselves kill my desire to use them here on milo. Great site in every other way, but the chat is sadly not so)

So just to be clear on this... The idea is that you don't like the situation as it is... And you don't want to be there, and try to improve it then? It seems to me, that people of your opinion are hard to satisfy... As many users of chat are okay with status quo as it is... And those who aren't complain, yet don't take an active role in chat or do anything to try to change it. If the issue isn't worth putting work/effort into changing, then why does it matter so much to you?

And as an aside, an administrator did NOT remove SC's teases, nor did they force him to remove them. SC made the offer when his latest tease went up, that if it caused issues like in the past, he would take it down, and requests were made, by more than simply the chat admin for that matter. SC wasn't forced into his actions, yet you seem to be acting like he was. Given he's a chat moderator, he obviously has enough standing he could have easily said no or disagreed, however after thought he decided it was for the best. Why attack the fact people made a request when the originator of the content decided to act upon it of his own free will and volition?

[gordthegutless]

Its funny, Im probably one of the more obnoxious semi regulars, but have always been received by chat mods with openness and understanding. However I can say while folks want to maintaion a lot of openness, what I saw happen was insanity...folks came in and started behaving like insane little pricks.

I'm male and the PMs and lack of respect of the spike in people was huge. I can only imagine what it did to the regulars.... but anyone coming into an open chat needs to show some level of respect and in my time in chat, they weren't.

[janmb]

So just to be clear on this... The idea is that you don't like the situation as it is... And you don't want to be there, and try to improve it then? It seems to me, that people of your opinion are hard to satisfy... As many users of chat are okay with status quo as it is... And those who aren't complain, yet don't take an active role in chat or do anything to try to change it. If the issue isn't worth putting work/effort into changing, then why does it matter so much to you?

This discussion should not be derailed to revolve around my participation in chat, so this will be the last from me on this topic:

I don't work to change chat because the chat itself needs no change. The things that need change is the attitude of the chat staff, which also rubs off on some of the users. And that is things I can't much change at all, unless it comes from the top. And since this has no relevance for the topic, I'll leave it at that.

And as an aside, an administrator did NOT remove SC's teases, nor did they force him to remove them. SC made the offer when his latest tease went up, that if it caused issues like in the past, he would take it down, and requests were made, by more than simply the chat admin for that matter. SC wasn't forced into his actions, yet you seem to be acting like he was.

I'm acting like he was more or less commanded to take it down because that is how I read his own posts here in this thread.... No more, no less.

[janmb]

Its funny, Im probably one of the more obnoxious semi regulars, but have always been received by chat mods with openness and understanding. However I can say while folks want to maintaion a lot of openness, what I saw happen was insanity...folks came in and started behaving like insane little pricks.

I'm male and the PMs and lack of respect of the spike in people was huge. I can only imagine what it did to the regulars.... but anyone coming into an open chat needs to show some level of respect and in my time in chat, they weren't.

No one, and certainly not me, is advocating that users acting like a donkeys arse in chat shouldn't be moderated. The point is that their behaviour in chat is the whole of the problem and the only problem - not the tease that made them go there. This thread started off by making it sound like recruiting more people into actively using the chat is a negative and a problem in its own right - which is clearly a pretty darn retarded view and something I sincerely hope I have misread.

As long as the tease didn't encourage them to act in a bad way, and apparently did the very opposite, the tease should never have been affected by the bad behaviour of individual users in chat. And whether the tease was taken down by force (not the case), or removed more or less voluntarily by the author, it is a mistake in either case.

[les]

                
I have found that presumptuous, and invasive PMs, showing no regard to the status of the recipient.
A long standing problem in chat.

With no easy solution.

Whenever they increase their appearances above a mild pain in the arse/ass.
To a rabid rash, sparks are bound to fly as escalating indignant stances come to the fore.
As we see happening in this thread.

SC hid his teases in deference to Jenny, and I told him to leave them that way while the overheated comments cooled back to resignation again.

In the meantime I have been giving some thought to a system of forum and chat interaction without the mercurial accusations.

If we all concentrate on this it may prove beneficial to a sanguine rather than sanguinary demeanour.

[seraph0x]

I've been asked to chime in so I'll chime in. We don't have a policy against teases that cause trouble in the chat and I have no intention to institute one. From what I understand from reading this thread, Jenny asked SC to take the teases down and he did so voluntarily which is fine with me. I just want emphasize again that there neither nor any other moderator would remove teases forcibly with this particular justification.

Certainly I would hope that authors do keep in mind if their teases are going to cause trouble for chat mods and common sense and common courtesy are much appreciated, I'm just not going to enforce it if an author does choose to be a bad neighbour basically.

As a solution I wonder if it's possible to have the teases be available, but defuse the situation somehow. Maybe the mentions of the chat could be removed or a note added that reminds people of the kind of conduct that is not desired. Again it's up SC what he does or if he does anything at all.

[marspank]

I for one think the chat admins do a heck of a job. They are open and inviting to new people who follow the Code of Conduct, which is basically 2 rules long. And anyone that doesn't follow it, they are provided a link, and forgiven and given warnings. The people in question that are being complained about just spamming chat for dares were not kicked, or banned, they were suffered through because it is an open chat, and they are entitled to be dumb if they want to be.

The chat was written to get more people who read teases to come and talk in chat, that was not working, as people were just coming in, demanding dares and leaving. Therefore it was taken down until something else can be figured out. End of story. Though not really because I'm guessing there will be 25 more posts.

[janmb]

Thanks seraph.