edging_bliss wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:12 pm
Trying to turn it into a "personal weakness" of mine
I'm not trying anything, it is a "personal weakness" of yours. You are just spreading misogynistic generalisations as if women weren't people with many different personalities but some collective out to suppress men. And then you are trying to frame that as rationality and try to frame me as unfairly attacking you. That's dishonest and cowardly.
I could point you to manosphere posts about men whose wives destroyed their lives
There are surely a lot of men complaining about their wives. Some rightly so some not, it doesn't support your generalized claim of "Western Women" being selfish. There are a lot of men who make their wives or female partners live hell as well, some to the point of ending that live. I could point you to something called "the news" to show that...
with half the marriages basically falling over
And that's the fault of women? Some people are not made to stay with each other for the rest of their lives. And divorce can be a good and more or less amicable thing. Not all of these divorces are wars, and how expensive they are for the higher income part depends a lot of local legislation.
I feel I have more than enough reasons to doubt "Western marriage"
No one forces you to marry. If you don't like it don't. But don't blame women for it. Also, how are "non-western marriages" better? In some countries, men have more power over women, and in many more just neither part has a choice so people don't divorce. Has nothing to do with "western".
But based on what you say, I get the impression that you just want to put all men in failed Western marriages - i.e. HALF married men - in a "box of broken toy-men" and just... ignore them.
How do you get to that conclusion? I clearly said, everybody should choose the kinds of relationships he/she/it wants. Doesn't matter to me. I just still don't get how western women are supposed to be "selfish" in general. You have made exactly zero arguments with respect to that conclusion.
But don't fool yourself into thinking that's a rational stance.
There is no purely rational way of living. Why would one masturbate to porn? Cause it satisfies some urges? Why should you satisfy those? Why should you not just decide to die right now? Or decide to marry and have 10 kids? In the end, you have to believe in something. You could believe in being happy as a live goal. Well, maybe kids and grand kids do that for some people, there is a lot of evidence that it does. Most people that aren't completely asexual desire some kind of deeper relationship with a sexual partner. or multiple sexual partners, be it simultaneously or sequentially. If you are fine with just masturbating to porn and visiting sexual workers, that's your valid choice. Some people want to do something different. That's not less rational, they just have different needs than you do.
Because that's what you do, when you marry in Western societies.
I'm not married and I do not plan to. But divorce is not death. I know quite a few people that have divorced and have married again. Doesn't even mean that they regret the first marriage.
That would require some serious mental gymnastics

Loving the female form yet hating females at the same time...
It is not uncommon at all. There are enough men out their that clearly are attracted to women but do not respect women at all.
You mark me as a "hater of women";
Well, you blame them for the misery of half of (married) men in the western world and you think of all of them (at least in the west) as selfish. There is clearly some antipathy there. If it reaches to the level of hate, I don't know.
I counter that I understand and appreciate the beauty and fragrance of flowers, without digging through the dirt involved in dealing with them on a daily basis.
You constantly talk about women like objects. Don't you have any normal, non-sexual relationships with women? You only think in "work" (as in marriage etc.) in relationship with sexual gratification. Flowers don't have personalities, women do...
You constantly objectify women, maybe not even out of hate, but then out of some very strange ignorance.
This even lets me to believe you are some scared of women
Oh so cute, more ad-hominems
Drop the latin that you don't understand. Analyzing you is not an ad-hominem.
Your "rational thinkin" is flawed anyway, as I have pointed out. That is just a shield you hide behind. The interesting thing is, why you constantly objectify women and blame them for misery of males. You claim to not need women (or only some professional women like porn actresses) but certainly you need no personal relationships with women. So what in your eyes makes western women selfish? How have they been selfish to you, if there is absolutely nothing that you want?
And compared to a wife? They are 3 orders of magnitude cheaper
See, objectification again. And pointing that out will surely get me an other invalid "ad hominem" accusation. With a wife one has a personal relationship and that relationship is typically reciprocated. Most women don't "trick" men into relationships, they truly want them. And at some point this relationship might not work anymore. Doesn't have to be the fault of anybody.
"The software in my genes tells me to enjoy the trust and "reliability" (facepalm

) of a long-term relationship"
So what? The software also tells you to masturbate for no reason. Good for you, that you only seem to have sexual needs, most people have other needs.
The fact that "many people" do it does not make it rational
True. Your behavior just isn't rational either.
the side-effects of satisfying your "REPRODUCE!" genetic imperative make you a life-long slave: wake up, work, come back, buy groceries, do house/kids work, tolerate wife drivel, drop dead in bed... repeat.
And? You also have a chance of people caring for you for life. And in many cases at least some of these people do. Also, this "life-long" commitment is not true. If you have kids, it is a commitment for the next 20 years or so. What kind of commitment marriage is, depends on the jurisdiction. Here, it's not that much of a problem. Also pretty easy nowadays to have kids and not marry or to marry and not have kids.
Ad-nauseum. How the gigantic fuck is that a better way to live than pure, free, unbridled lust?
Lust is not everything. You might also figure this out at some point.