Milovana.com

So, as an outsider looking in, I have noticed a major upswing in chat-related problems. Seems like there's an issue every day. I don't imagine the server costs are cheap - and from what I can find, one person is footing the bill for everything. There's only one actual developer for the chat software, and it is - in my humble opinion - severely lacking in features, stability, integration, and aesthetic appeal. It's a relatively under-utilized feature on the site, and judging from the few times I've been in, there is almost never anything truly related to the site going on in there. No talks, no discussions about anything remotely related to BDSM, kink, fetish, exploration, or anything else remotely related. I've seen topics from video games, clothes, facebook, and a myriad of personal discussions going on, but nothing past that.

So my question is - why bother? Its a drain on resources, it forces the site to keep active mods that it doesn't really need. There's a ton of issues, and probably just as much time spent fixing it. Why not cut the losses, dump the chat, and focus more into better tease software, or an URGE update, or some of the "ongoing projects" like blogs and such that have been promised for years and never accomplished?

1) The chat is in no way obligated to be related to the site in any way, shape or form. It is a place for like minded individuals to go and just... Chat. Sometimes it's kink related, sometimes it is not. In fact, if you've never seen anything kink related, it's just because you weren't on at the right time.

We're not machines of fetish and kink. We have lives, interests, and thoughts outside of sex. If you don't, well, you may want to look into that.

2) If there isn't anything going on, nothing is stopping you from starting a conversation. You're a member of the community, you can also give to it. Get involved, and you'll find that you'll receive something from it. Amazing how that works.

3) If you don't use it, why are you whinning about it?

Did I miss anything?

It is easy to criticize...

do you have any suggestions?
how would you stabilize thing?
are you volunteering to help update urge and do the software wring for blogs
or explore options for tease software??
that is a LOT of work...

now

I love chat! and spend hours of my day in it.
I am not sure what chat you have been to that does not have SOME kind of moderator on it or associated with it.
chat does NOT cost anything.. in terms of money,
and all us moderators are volunteers.
I hope if you return to chat you have postive expierences...

or you can as said earlier, just not use that!
that is what makes this site SO great
the different things to explore!

I'm going to address each of your points (though not in the order your brought them up) as I feel there's merit in explaining the counter argument. I'd like to preface this as I don't mean to personally attack you, but simply to address the points you brought up. Also I do wonder why this is posted here and not suggestions, but that's really not important.

ronin wrote:So, as an outsider looking in, I have noticed a major upswing in chat-related problems. Seems like there's an issue every day....
There's a ton of issues, and probably just as much time spent fixing it.

There has been an upswing, mostly related to a single server crash that a lot of issues were found (Database crash, server at storage limit, etc). For the most part when chat crashes, it's because there's enough people active enough, that the server runs out of memory. When it happens because of this, it's a matter of one of the four people who can fix it, noticing and issueing a single command on a command line to fix it. Chat itself sits on a fairly small seperate server, which were there slightly more memory it'd not be an issue, then again, that'd raise costs.

I don't imagine the server costs are cheap - and from what I can find, one person is footing the bill for everything...
So my question is - why bother? Its a drain on resources, it forces the site to keep active mods that it doesn't really need. Why not cut the losses, dump the chat, and focus more into better tease software, or an URGE update, or some of the "ongoing projects" like blogs and such that have been promised for years and never accomplished?

There's really a lot to this comment, so I'm going to break it down.

• You're correct in that both server costs aren't cheap and that there is only one person footing the bill (Seraph0x)
• I can't agree it's a drain on resources. I can conservatively estimate the costs related to chat are under 5% of the cost of running the site or less. Does it force the site to keep mods? No, the chat could be unmoderated. Given all the mods are volunteers, it's not like it's an expense, nor with the exception of Milovana Team members, are any of the chat mods, moderators on the forums.
• As for other features and ongoing projects, those are all being done by Seraph0x himself, and given he has a real job and this isn't a pay site, it is behoove of us to be patient. If it were easy and simple, it'd probably be done by now. And moreover if you're bringing up resource comments, new features like that mean more server resources needed, and more potential issues to deal with

There's only one actual developer for the chat software, and it is - in my humble opinion - severely lacking in features, stability, integration, and aesthetic appeal.

To my knowledge, there's no one currently developing chat. I helped initially setup the chat server (the backend), and at that point we chose an open-source browser based client to put on the site for chat. Given chat is currently XMPP based, there are lots of features that could exist were there someone actively working on it. You're correct that the browser based client doesn't have a lot of features in it. However it does allow us to chat with one another, the critical feature. It in addition also lets us be able to connect from devices without flash (a feature the previous chat lacked). If you don't like the looks of chat aesthetically I'd suggest choosing a different xmpp client to use, there's dozens of them, and our chat supports any of them being able to connect.

It's a relatively under-utilized feature on the site, and judging from the few times I've been in, there is almost never anything truly related to the site going on in there. No talks, no discussions about anything remotely related to BDSM, kink, fetish, exploration, or anything else remotely related. I've seen topics from video games, clothes, facebook, and a myriad of personal discussions going on, but nothing past that.

While the rest of your points I can understand your view some and see their merits, I can't remotely agree with this one. While we don't often have lots of people in chat, chat has had almost 7,000 unique visitors to it, since we switched chat systems. That's over 20% of the total Milovana user base, has used this chat system at one point or another. And given that this chat hasn't existed for the life of the site, and there's plenty of dormant usernames, that may well mean a better percentage of current active users have.

As for the topic of discussion, I can attest to that in the past week alone, probably 5/7 days I've had a discussion regarding BDSM/Kink/etc in some way with someone who wasn't a regular in chat, and whom I don't know well. I will admit that the topic in the rooms can often be way off kink. However that doesn't mean it's never kink. Nor does that mean kinky things aren't being done in private.

What I will agree with, is there isn't "scenes" in public very often. This is most likely due to a few factors. First of all, that there's not a lot of dom/mes on the site in general, much less in chat. Secondly the dom/mes there are already have submissives, and so play in private with them instead of public, or got tired of their scenes being interrupted by people begging to join or be their subs or the unwanted PMs they got when they did play out in public a lot. I know personally of 4-5 people that no longer play in public because of this.

Lastly, is chat perfect? Nope. Is chat a needed feature this site would die without? No. Is chat a nice feature, that plenty would miss? Yes.

Tashi wrote:1) The chat is in no way obligated to be related to the site in any way, shape or form. It is a place for like minded individuals to go and just... Chat. Sometimes it's kink related, sometimes it is not. In fact, if you've never seen anything kink related, it's just because you weren't on at the right time.

We're not machines of fetish and kink. We have lives, interests, and thoughts outside of sex. If you don't, well, you may want to look into that.

2) If there isn't anything going on, nothing is stopping you from starting a conversation. You're a member of the community, you can also give to it. Get involved, and you'll find that you'll receive something from it. Amazing how that works.

3) If you don't use it, why are you whinning about it?

Did I miss anything?

No way obligated ... okay - that's an interesting thought. Why would you say that? It's a fetish website. The chat is hosted on a fetish website. So why would it have no obligation to the site that hosts it? That's like having a picture of a duck on Kink.com. If a puzzle piece doesn't fit - why have it?

No, I get that everybody has lives. I do too - but when I come to Milovana, I come here to explore fetish and kink. Not to post about the latest video game craze. It's not facebook - it's a site for exploring kinks and fetishes, yes? I'm not saying restrict the type of information that flows here, I'm posting a hypothetical question as to the possible benefits of cutting the chaff and focusing on features that the vast majority of site visitors are more likely to utilize. The site has - what - a few thousand unique visitors per day? What percentage of them even visit the chatroom? More importantly - and this is an open - honest question for anybody that wants to answer it - how many users are on this site specifically because of the chat? My guess is that at one time or another - every single user here was attracted to the webteases.

I am getting involved in the community. This is me, getting involved. In my life, I see potential for improvement, I explore that potential. I get that people are twitchy about topics like this, but yours has a hint of agressiveness to it. It doesn't need to. It's a debate, like anything else.

Turtle already answered you above about that. I'm just going to address you on "chat needs to be about kink!"


No, it doesn't. Chat is a big ol' munch type place. Ever been to a munch? I go regularly. It's filled with lifestylers, kinksters, Dom/mes and their subs, and generally all manner of BDSM people.
Most of the time, we don't talk about kink. We talk about our own personal interests, share random stories, and just hang out in an environment filled with people of similar minds and interests.

That's the chat. It's a place for people to be who share a similar interest. But it is not EXCLUSIVE to that one interest. Being forced to discuss only what *you* feel is relevant is missing the entire point of the community in general, and chat in specific.

There is an all and everything forum. In that forum, there's a post about Magic: The Gathering.
That's not on topic of Kink, should it be eliminated? After all, the forums should serve the community, and this community is about kink.


You seem to be under the impression that "A kink website is only about kink"
no
wrong
do not pass go
do not collect 200$

A kink website is mostly about kink. It's a place and safe environment for people to feel at ease talking about it, if they wish. Or sharing another interest if they don't.

I'll reply to your post in more detail when time allows DoxysTurtle, but for one comment. You mentioned a curiosity as to why I posted here? Simple - this is the same forum that all of the multitude of chat issues is reported - its also the one most likely to attract the attention of the site Administrator, and I'm genuinely curious as to his/her perspective on it.

I mean, basically, your point boils down to "I personally see no reason, so it shouldn't exist".

Others do. Turtle posted some stats on how the chat is popular. There are generally between 10-30 people in the chat at any one time, many of them regular. I spend most of my time on Milo there, myself.

Tashi wrote:Turtle already answered you above about that. I'm just going to address you on "chat needs to be about kink!"


No, it doesn't. Chat is a big ol' munch type place. Ever been to a munch? I go regularly. It's filled with lifestylers, kinksters, Dom/mes and their subs, and generally all manner of BDSM people.
Most of the time, we don't talk about kink. We talk about our own personal interests, share random stories, and just hang out in an environment filled with people of similar minds and interests.

That's the chat. It's a place for people to be who share a similar interest. But it is not EXCLUSIVE to that one interest. Being forced to discuss only what *you* feel is relevant is missing the entire point of the community in general, and chat in specific.

There is an all and everything forum. In that forum, there's a post about Magic: The Gathering.
That's not on topic of Kink, should it be eliminated? After all, the forums should serve the community, and this community is about kink.


You seem to be under the impression that "A kink website is only about kink"
no
wrong
do not pass go
do not collect 200$

A kink website is mostly about kink. It's a place and safe environment for people to feel at ease talking about it, if they wish. Or sharing another interest if they don't.

No - that's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is - if you have a tool - any useful tool, doesn't it make sense to at least utilize that tool for its intended purpose? The chatroom *could* be used for a multitude of things - scheduled debates about different topics related to kinks and fetishes. Q&A with a true to life Dom or Domme. Group chats that revolve around specific fetishes, like crossdressing, Sado-masochism, etc. And I'm pretty sure I already stated that just because something doesn't fit doesn't mean it should be removed. What I'm saying is - if there's a regular feature that is more of a hindrance to further advancement, perhaps priorities should be readjusted.

Doxysturtle mentioned one guy foots the bill for the whole thing. One guy responsible for every bit of advancement on here. So what happens if that one guy is tied up dealing with the same issues, over and over and over? Chances are, none of the other stuff gets done. Especially if he has a full-time job.

If someone wants to shedule a Q&A for the chat, they can. I believe it's happened before. There have been scheduled games and talks and events.

Those things slowly fadded over time because of how some people have treated those planning it.
If you want to set up a real time Q&A, do so! I'm sure people would be more than happy to join in and participate.

But, like all things on this site, it is entirely volunteer based. not one is under obligation to start it, or participate in it. But if you build it, they will come.

ronin wrote: More importantly - and this is an open - honest question for anybody that wants to answer it - how many users are on this site specifically because of the chat? My guess is that at one time or another - every single user here was attracted to the webteases.

My personal experience is that when I found this website I merely used a couple of teases here and there, I enjoyed the titillation and the various kinks I could explore. But in the end that wasn't enough. I stumbled into the chat room and have met some really good friends in there, including my girlfriend and Mistress (and one time sub) Della. Myself and some of those friends met up offline last month. That's all because of chat. I wouldn't have met those people otherwise and I probably would have got bored of the web teases and stopped coming here. Instead I became part of the community have made several teases, and made extensive use of the forum. I may not use chat as much as I used to, but it's still a very important part of the site. It does attract people to use (and continue using) this wonderful website.

As for the vanilla tint to the flavour of chat, so what? Like Tashi said, it's a group of like minded people getting to know each other. There used to be a lot more kinky activities going on in public chat, and it is a shame that it seems to have died out somewhat, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen behind closed doors. Or in the specialised rooms.

ronin wrote: I am getting involved in the community. This is me, getting involved. In my life, I see potential for improvement, I explore that potential. It's a debate, like anything else.

Chat is and should remain a very important part of the community. As for the resources it takes up I defer to Turtle's knowledge on the subject, like he said it doesn't take a large amount of the budget. It doesn't prevent teases being made, and it doesn't limit the options on the forum. It's a nice bonus feature and I'm not sure I would want to trade that off for blogs or urge.

I'm not a huge contributor or even someone who speaks out very often about anything. However, I felt that I could voice an opinion here.

The chat is a nice place to go and have a discussion about a whole lot of things. When there are conversations going on (more on that in a second) I've found people to be interesting and engaging, no matter the topic. I think that having a chat that dealt only with fetishes and kinks might actually get boring after a while. Having that whole range of experiences and conversations keeps things moving and interesting, and there's always the POTENTIAL that something more along the lines of what the site gives us overall will come up.

My issue with the chat is that most of the times I go in, it's dead quiet. There might be 8-12 names there, but no-one is talking. If you say hello, nobody answers. I attribute that to the very likely idea that there are a few private chats going on that people are paying attention to, or that people are dealing with their lives away from the screen. There are times that the chat feels clique-ish, but those are rare. Someone new to the experience might get turned off because of that, but I've been in enough chat rooms to know the difference.

But like I said, when there are conversations going on, it's fun to sit and watch sometimes and even more so to get involved. If I don't know anything about the topic being discussed, I watch. If I do, I contribute. It doesn't matter if it's video games or what happened last night on X tv show. Variety is the spice of life, as they say, and that goes even on a site like Milovana.

ronin wrote:So my question is - why bother?

Because, like Banquo has mentioned, it allows amazing people to meet other amazing people. It is where I have found my wonderful Master, and I have chat to thank for that. I'm sure there are many more similar stories where the chat system here has given great happiness.

ronin wrote:it forces the site to keep active mods that it doesn't really need.

I volunteer to moderate chat, no one forces me to be there, and im very sure that is the case for all of us. Also, there are a number of occasions where moderators are needed, but since you do not use chat you never see those occasions, so I don't see how you can comment on whether moderators are needed or not.

DoxysTurtle wrote:What I will agree with, is there isn't "scenes" in public very often. This is most likely due to a few factors. First of all, that there's not a lot of dom/mes on the site in general, much less in chat. Secondly the dom/mes there are already have submissives, and so play in private with them instead of public, or got tired of their scenes being interrupted by people begging to join or be their subs or the unwanted PMs they got when they did play out in public a lot. I know personally of 4-5 people that no longer play in public because of this.

Me and Master play in private 95% of the time for these reasons. That doesn't mean it's not happening somewhere, you just have to go looking for it.

ronin wrote:honest question for anybody that wants to answer it - how many users are on this site specifically because of the chat?

After stumbling onto the website, I saw that there was a chat system and that you needed to register to join in on the chat, and so I did. I only ever viewed a webtease after I joined and if it was mentioned in chat. I have never written one, or completed one, so they are not for everyone.

Tashi wrote:If someone wants to shedule a Q&A for the chat, they can. I believe it's happened before. There have been scheduled games and talks and events.

Jana hosted a game rather recently in the room specifically designed for kinky talk and games. The lounge is used as exactly that, a place for people who have an interest in kink, to lounge around and have other conversations with people. I presume you saw this and that formed your full impression. The Kinky Games Room is there to be filled with exactly that, kinky things, and nothing more happens there.

Tashi wrote:You seem to be under the impression that "A kink website is only about kink"
no
wrong
do not pass go
do not collect 200$

And we have Tashi, so what's not to love

I started visiting this site for webteases, but for a while now I've not paid any attention to them. The part of the site I use most these days - in the high 90s % of the time, in fact - is chat.

Initially, as with joining many existing communities, I felt somewhat of an outsider. Sometimes chat seems very quiet with nobody apparently chatting, sometimes the conversations may be about things that I know nothing about and have no interest in, but I kept coming, contributed where I could in my own way, and before long began to feel comfortable and at home with what is, after all, a very disparate group of people of varying ages, interests, personalities, etc.

After a time, I became friends with a lady in chat and our friendship led to us deciding to explore our shared "kinks" together. She is now my wonderful Domme, and we meet up in chat - mostly in private, as we don't play in public. But we also take part in public chat.

In other words, I am one of those who use chat regularly, and if it didn't exist it's unlikely that I would spend much time on the site. As it is, I may at some point decide to write a tease, or I can contribute to the forums as well as using chat...but chat is the one part of the site that keeps me coming back.

princesscutie wrote: Me and Master play in private 95% of the time for these reasons. That doesn't mean it's not happening somewhere, you just have to go looking for it.

Plus you get the likes of me posting pictures to tease and delight people *innocent smile*

On the subject of people playing publicly, after reading this thread yesterday I was very sorely tempted to pluck some poor individual to torment in chat, after all I hadn't done that in a while, and it can be really good fun. In the end I decided against it; who know's I might get to it later today if chat comes back online.