Milovana.com

Nezhul wrote: A lot of times you was pointed out that pedophile does not necessarily go about raping a 6 year old child every now and then, ruining his life completely. Not only that, but fucking 17yo girl is pedohilia too, even if she's fully developed and ready to bear children (and I'll talk about it a bit later too). But you are blindly following the known truth "this is WRONG" and don't want to hear anything. Well, go on. I don't agree that making child porn is OK too, but I don't agree with you neither.

Semantics though, I know what you mean and I don't wanna deepen the discussion about defining pedophilia, as it should be clear.

It is not semantics to separate a scientific term from a legal term. They are two very different things.

The laws for sexual relations in the US vary from state to state, and they differ from many countries. 18 is referred to as the age of consent, however legally there are exceptions to that rule. Also some states look at the difference in age of the two people, and some even make different rulings depending on the sex of the older partner. <shrug>

Legally someone can be labeled as a Sexual Predator, or a Sex Criminal.

I did look at some portion of some of those teases, I can understand the lack of clarity in them. It is that lack of clarity that I felt was inappropriate. I don't think this site needs to aid in the possible exploration of pedophilia, or something that starts to go in that direction. I think it will only aid the stability of the site to draw a line in the electronic ether when it comes to things like this.

It does in the end come down to some judgement, and I think the moderators did the correct thing when faced with something unclear to make the safe decision.

The site has grown and changed over the years, as anything is apt to do. I think sometimes the direction it goes, goes a long way in keeping the discussion.... interesting and mature... no mature isn't the correct term... Interesting, sexual, and intelligent.

LittleElfBoy wrote: @Sexytimes 5: Your one-dimensional thinking and arguing is getting boring. But from what you have written I can easily assume that you didn't really read most of the things I've written or you chose to ignore them. So I'm doing the ladder to you now.

I must admit (due to me being not pedophile) that I wrongly assumed that Pedophiles need frequent interaction with kids to satisfy their desires. Turns out they can control themselves better than even I assumed.

There are other pedophile groups however, that disagree with 100% denying and avoiding their tendencies, but those are hard to find, which is not really surprising.

It's hilarious how you guys keep defending pedophiles with everything under the sun in a repetitive fashion and then wonder why someone who knows people abused for real by these sorts of people would keep responding to it. Search out another link that points to how great pedophiles are, Shameful!

You said all of the following which set me off. You, being so enlightened and in touch with even lowlife creeps like pedophiles should understand where I'm coming from too.

LittleElfBoy wrote:>moralfag
>subjective morals

[/thread]

You posted that in response to my first post.

LittleElfBoy wrote: I did. I didn't feel like putting in more, because your only argument were subjective morals. I can understand the legal problem for the site and to put it bluntly: I never saw a problem with any of the removed teases and I don't give a fuck if other people think they're abhorrent. But feel free to throw another hateful rant at me, I could use some lulz.

You should care.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Read this: http://www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html

>subjective morals I told you

Yep, when it comes to pedophiles. You’re right.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Has anyone here even read the article I posted earlier? http://www.narth.com/docs/arguecase.html - There are factual reports of working consensual partnerships between pedophiles and minors. I don't promote that, I don't condamn it either. As I have been repeatedly stating, Moral is 100% subjective.

I'm against the abuse of the children, but to be honest, there is no data on how consensual sexual interaction between a minor and pedophile affects the minor in question. I will not say child porn is good, but I oppose to call it bad if there isn't factual evidence that the minor was forced/abused or that it is harmful to him in another way.

So to put it simplified: Yes, I don't think child porn is inherently bad.

Look at what you posted and wonder why someone who has been affected by this particular subject matter would get fired up and not go away. Look at the post again. Then again and again. Maybe ask Nezhul to go over it with you.

LittleElfBoy wrote: I'm no pedophile, but I can imagine how it must be to be one.

This one made me wonder if you could imagine what it would be like to be a kid who gets abused by a pedophile.

LittleElfBoy wrote: First we have breathplayslut who is trying to sell his moralic views as a matter of fact and won't accept they're a result of his upbringing and social climate and entirely subjective.

Where do you have to be raised where the subject matter we were discussing is hunky dory? Do the people where you live just say Awe.. Poor little man just wants to love a kid. No problem! Want to use mine!!!

LittleElfBoy wrote: I don't thin Pedos should be able to screw with childs at their leisure, but given the article I found I began to wonder if a Pedo relationship under parental supervision is harmful or not.

Relationship? Pedophile? Sorry Charlie but when I see sentences like this one it makes me wonder if you are indeed a pedophile. Either that or our definitions of pedophile are completely different. My definition simply means CHILD MOLESTER.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Subjective morals simply means what you regard as morally right does not necessarily mean it is. Because morals are a subjective matter.

Now you told me this in the middle of a discussion about pedophiles which insinuated that my stance in favor of kids might not be right. Poll question! All in favor of Pedophiles and pedophilic themes raise your hands! Awe man! Only a handful. Now, Everyone in favor of protecting children and keeping pedophiles as far from them as possible, raise your hands.. Thunderous waves of air rush through the world as tens of thousands of Milovana hands raise up in unison. Sorry guys, you just can’t win this one.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Banquo, you have an interesting view on that. Even though you seem to understand the subjective morals issue on BDSM, but dismiss it on Pedophilia because you're not into it.

This one basically says that you might think BDSM and Pedophilia are equals. Like an adult getting their ass spanked by a Dominant or being tied up is no different than a person who does something sexual with a kid.

LittleElfBoy wrote: I never suggested abuse. I know the violent abuse is damaging. Not that I haven't suggested sexual intercourse, I stated relationship because I'm not sure how far would be healthy and where the borders should be.

Check out this little nugget. You never suggested abuse? Oh, of course not. You were just talking about a nice healthy "relationship" between a pedophile and a kid.

LittleElfBoy wrote:hentai images aren't morally wrong

Holy cow! I agree with you on something.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Over the course of discussion I read up a few things on pedophilia and realized how horrible it is to be born as one and how much unjust bias is towards them. I repeat, that I don't think they should be able to have sex with children at their leisure, but I want to maybe change a few people's opinion to make them stop to think all of them are sick perverted monsters, because that isn't true.

Ok man. Hopefully Nezhul and yourself, being intellectual giants can surely grasp why this statement could get under a child advocates skin. I know it will be hard to grasp since you guys are pedophile advocates but please try. (They shouldn't have sex with children at their leisure.) Dig deep guys. Try to digest that and let me know if you can understand why a person might get fired up after reading it.

LittleElfBoy wrote: Well, 16 is legal age in some countries, that was a no brainer. And if the teen is in puberty already, the pedophile could help them with sex education. This is something I saw suggested somewhere else too. This doesn't neccessarily involve intercourse. Of course, with all the neccessary safeguards. I don't even think there is a need for the pedos to have intercourse with kids.

(The pedophile could help them with sex education.) I mean ummmm.... uh.... duh.... Oh thank our lucky Milo stars, you pulled back at the very last second with.. (Of course, with all the neccessary safeguards. I don't even think there is a need for the pedos to have intercourse with kids.) Ummm... uhhh.. Thanks man, you did have my blood boiling for a second. Ummm.. Duh.... Sorry, I'm stupid, just ask Nezhul. Errr Duh...

Talk to you later Nezhul if you would like to keep this going.

This thread is hilarous. I bet Sexytimes 5 is from usa is that right? And you believe in god.. or you are atleast from religious family.. correct? Dont want to offend any Americans (except fanatic believers, they can kiss my ass) .. but your "Style" of reasoning is familiar to me :p

I just wanted to say that I totally support Nezhul and janmb and all others with same opinion, they spoke for me too. Also I dont like the fact, that some teases where removed based on fucking old show. I dont like anime so I have never tried them.. but it is bullshit and I cant understand that. It was someones work that is now destroyed for no good reason.

And why do you even care about drawings looking like teens?.. every 18yo skinny model looks few years younger. Give me one hour with photoshop and she will look like 10 yo. Will it be LEGAL according to you then? Is one stupid number on her website enough and your morals go away?

Im 23 and I have 15 years old girlfriend.. for almost year now.. because I was always attracted to young girls.. do I look like pedophile to you breathplayslut or Sexytimes? I dont give a fuck its perfectly fine ÿou prehistoric girl/man. Go out of the cave and stop acting like teens are brainless zombies and they cant even wipe their ass without your help.

Oh I know, you didnt want to delete anything, you was just asking Mrs breathplateslut. On public forum because this information was SO FUCKING important we all should see it. Next time you should think before acting, stupid. When the tease wasnt removed, there was clearly no problem, until you started to poke. Can you even imagine how much work and time must one invest to create good tease? And if one of them was nominated to monthly best, they were good Im sure! No ofcourse you dont.. you created nothing.

And this is why I dont like public internet forums.. you always get mad.. always
I wanted to stay away from here.. so people think about my work when they hear my name, not about my opinions.. but Im not sure if I care anymore
Lets censor everything! You can rename the site to milovana.de aswell.. so kinksters know they should stay away...

Well said Mazi.

Ironically, sexytimes' views are sadly not prehistoric - unfortunately they are more of a modern trend.

Earlier in history, humans listened to nature. The difference between child and adult was puberty - which makes perfect sense, rather than the modern ideals that adulthood and sexual consent should be defined by a completely artificial age limit.

janmb wrote:Well said Mazi.

Ironically, sexytimes' views are sadly not prehistoric - unfortunately they are more of a modern trend.

Earlier in history, humans listened to nature. The difference between child and adult was puberty - which makes perfect sense, rather than the modern ideals that adulthood and sexual consent should be defined by a completely artificial age limit.

Yes, you are right. But I was thinking about age of partners. In my country for example like 20 years ago it was unrealistic to have partner younger/older then 1-2 years without being in eye of lot of people. Now its perfectly fine to be 20 years older.. and same goes with age "limits". It is normal for 12 years old to have first partners in school, same for 70 years or older. It wasnt like that in past, atleast from my point of view :)

I know that in past centuries it was again absolutely different, but I was thinking about not so far past :D funny if you want to explaing something but dont know how.

Mazi wrote:I just wanted to say that I totally support Nezhul and janmb and all others with same opinion, they spoke for me too. Also I dont like the fact, that some teases where removed based on fucking old show. I dont like anime so I have never tried them.. but it is bullshit and I cant understand that. It was someones work that is now destroyed for no good reason.

And why do you even care about drawings looking like teens?.. every 18yo skinny model looks few years younger. Give me one hour with photoshop and she will look like 10 yo. Will it be LEGAL according to you then? Is one stupid number on her website enough and your morals go away?

Im 23 and I have 15 years old girlfriend.. for almost year now.. because I was always attracted to young girls.. do I look like pedophile to you breathplayslut or Sexytimes? I dont give a fuck its perfectly fine ÿou prehistoric girl/man. Go out of the cave and stop acting like teens are brainless zombies and they cant even wipe their ass without your help.

Oh I know, you didnt want to delete anything, you was just asking Mrs breathplateslut. On public forum because this information was SO FUCKING important we all should see it. Next time you should think before acting, stupid. When the tease wasnt removed, there was clearly no problem, until you started to poke. Can you even imagine how much work and time must one invest to create good tease? And if one of them was nominated to monthly best, they were good Im sure! No ofcourse you dont.. you created nothing.

And this is why I dont like public internet forums.. you always get mad.. always
I wanted to stay away from here.. so people think about my work when they hear my name, not about my opinions.. but Im not sure if I care anymore
Lets censor everything! You can rename the site to milovana.de aswell.. so kinksters know they should stay away...

It's not uncommon for people to group up based on similar lines of thinking. Supporting Nezhuls' and Janmbs' positions is no great surprise. But by your logic, if a person see's something that breaks the rules, and to be fair, a pretty major rule that exists primarily to protect the site as a whole, they should stick their head in the sand and *not* speak up? That's a huge portion of what's wrong with general society today - and not my style.

Are you a pedophile - yes. By sheer definition alone. Is it wrong? Depends, are you asking morally, or legally? From a purely legal standpoint (depending where you are), most likely yes. From a moral, or ethical standpoint, and this is where the debate comes in - maybe. To fall into an abusive category, you would need to be doing her some form of harm, either mental, physical, or emotional. Physical is the most obvious - as long as you're not hurting her, then ok. Emotional - who knows? Mental, same story - nobody really knows. The clincher for me personally is - is her natural development being intruded upon, or altered based on your relationship with her? Quite possibly. Oh, I could throw a whole slew of scenarios at you that would show the negative impact, but all they would serve to do is make you angrier, and that's actually not what I'm about. But in the eyes of the law, she can't sign a contract, she can't buy a car, or have her own cell phone, she can't vote, drink, drive, or have a full-time job yet. She can't buy a house, nor is she mature enough to raise a child (a very real consequence of having sex). Now, if all of the respective entities out there don't qualify her as adult enough to do any of these things, or buy any of these products, you have to ask why that is. Fair enough, she may be the exception to the rule - she may be very mature for her age. She may have wonderful grades, and you might help her with her homework, and talk about grown-up topics. She may cook you dinner, and have a glass of wine with you - (though, that's illegal too). You may be a great example of why this shouldn't be wrong - I sincerely hope that's the case. But to answer my own question - those examples are all wrong for her because at 15 she hasn't developed any real-world experience to protect herself from the many types of predators out there. She most likely hasn't learned the consequences of getting a lousy interest rate on a car, and is more hormonally driven than cognitively driven. At that age, her parents are still responsible for her, and her actions - which is probably why society deems this a problem. If she gets pregnant, and you leave - she doesn't support herself - society does. Her parents. The government (taxpayers), the hospital (taxpayers), the doctors, the welfare division, and food stamps/WIC programs. The laws exist to protect not only her, but the potential fallout from her bad decisions. At 18, she's legally responsible for her own behavior. She should be done developing physically, past growing taller, and other minor physical changes. The hormonal changes should have leveled out, and most importantly, she now has the responsibility of looking out for her own well-being.

You ask if pedophilia is wrong? Based on all of the potential fallout that even a consenting relationship may create - yes.

breathplayslut wrote:Are you a pedophile - yes. By sheer definition alone.

Then you have a very different and misguided definition of pedophilia.

A lot of people here are confusing underage sex with pedophilia. The former is any sexual activity with persons under the legal age of consent and has no direct relation to pedophilia. Pedophilia on the other hand is the alignment of being sexually aroused by undeveloped people, as in prepubertals.

The fact that underage sex is outlawed and punishable doesn't make it 1:1 or even related with pedophilia which is something else entirely.

The mere inability to grasp this fundamental difference goes a long way to explain a lot of the misguided views in this thread.

Additionally, Mazi having a gf of age 15 isn't necessarily illegal what so ever depending on jurisdiction, and is in any case not wrong in my book as long as she is developed and the whole thing is entirely voluntary - which I take for granted it is.

I realize I differ somewhat from a lot of people, especially Americans, in believing a 15 year old person is a fairly mature and thinking individual - whereas a lot of people seem to think of any person under 18 as a thoughtless pile of goo unable to think or fend for themselves in any way.

breathplayslut wrote:But in the eyes of the law, she can't sign a contract, she can't buy a car, or have her own cell phone, she can't vote, drink, drive, or have a full-time job yet. She can't buy a house, nor is she mature enough to raise a child (a very real consequence of having sex).

What world do you live in!!?? With the exception of driving, in most jurisdictions in the world, a 15 year old can legally do anything else on that list - most of all become a mother.

Ironically, here you touch another important topic related to this whole debate: Sex education. The fundamental idea that no one under 18 ought to have sex, and that any youth ought to have their sexual debut as late as possible, sadly works against the many problems related to youth sexuality, such as unwanted pregnancy and STIs. A lot of communities, schools and parents avoid sex education in line this this thinking, doing their kids a huge disfavour. Likewise, many places minors can't even buy condoms legally. Which is obviously a disaster since it will never ever, not once, prevent someone from having sex. It WILL however prevent them from doing it safely.

I had so much hope for this thread being a intellectual discussion about a highly controversial issue, but in true Milovana style, it has turned into a personal attack on a few people who have every right to there opinions.

Mazi wrote: I bet Sexytimes 5 is from usa is that right? And you believe in god.. or you are at least from religious family.. correct? Don't want to offend any Americans (except fanatic believers, they can kiss my ass) .. but your "Style" of reasoning is familiar to me :p

I was raised in Scotland. I was taught right from wrong by my Christian Mother and as i result i believe that child porn is wrong. Why should someones background make their argument anymore or less valid. I could call into question the fact your upbringing may be source of your reasoning but it makes it no less valid than anyone else so I would suggest that you do not try to undermine his argument with such a pointless reason.


As I already pointed out, the tease was taken down because it was in the best interest of the site. So why are we throwing out toys out of the pram? I read the tease, I also watched Pokemon and one of my first thoughts was that it was rather wrong as I knew the age of the characters and sooner or later, someone was going to make the point and in my opinion that is for the better.

If you want to support the kiddy-fiddlers, if you want to give them a hug and tell them its OK, its not there fault, its just they way there were born then go head but do not ask, in fact, do no DEMAND others to believe as you do. You all talk about subjective morals, well if mine are subjective, so are yours. You are no more or less right than I am in my belief that children should be protected.

I think the intellectual side of this thread has long been lost so why don't you all stop flogging at a dead horse? No-ones view are going to be changed by these pointless insults and name-callings.

I would like to personally thank BreathPlaySlut for bringing the illegal content to the notice of the admin.

Anna.

janmb wrote:

breathplayslut wrote:Are you a pedophile - yes. By sheer definition alone.

Then you have a very different and misguided definition of pedophilia.

pe·do·phile
/ˈpedəˌfīl/
Noun

• A person who is sexually attracted to children.

child
/CHīld/
Noun

• A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
  A son or daughter of any age.

So, by sheer definition in simplest terms, so as not to get confused, pedophilia is being sexually attracted to a young human below the age of full physical development. Wiki relates this as:

Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17

So yes, technically possible for it not to qualify as pedophilia, but playing the odds, it's more likely than not.

The fact that underage sex is outlawed and punishable doesn't make it 1:1 or even related with pedophilia which is something else entirely.

Incorrect - the only actual difference is the age at which the sex occurred - but both involve sex with persons under the age of legal consent.

Additionally, Mazi having a gf of age 15 isn't necessarily illegal what so ever depending on jurisdiction, and is in any case not wrong in my book as long as she is developed and the whole thing is entirely voluntary - which I take for granted it is.

Granted - there are places in the world that recognize age of consent at being younger than I'm used to. And I agree - voluntary is critical. So is maturity. If an immature person gives consent, is it really consent?

What world do you live in!!?? With the exception of driving, in most jurisdictions in the world, a 15 year old can legally do anything else on that list - most of all become a mother.

I live in America. I'm not native to America, I'm originally from Sao Paolo. I've lived in the US for the past 8 years, so I'm familiar with the laws. In the US, minors aren't allowed to do any of those things. Yes, you can be a mother at a younger age - its a biological fact of life. Should they be, just because they can? I leave that to better minds than mine to debate.

Ironically, here you touch another important topic related to this whole debate: Sex education. The fundamental idea that no one under 18 ought to have sex, and that any youth ought to have their sexual debut as late as possible, sadly works against the many problems related to youth sexuality, such as unwanted pregnancy and STIs. A lot of communities, schools and parents avoid sex education in line this this thinking, doing their kids a huge disfavour. Likewise, many places minors can't even buy condoms legally. Which is obviously a disaster since it will never ever, not once, prevent someone from having sex. It WILL however prevent them from doing it safely.

I actually agree with a few of your points. I believe sex should be a more open topic - in many societies, it's still very much a repressed topic. There needs to be better education on it, but everybody is too embarrassed to discuss it rationally. Should young people be "allowed" to have sex? Who knows? I don't believe in over-regulating things, hell, I had sex when I was 15. (He was 16). Maybe doing away with some of the "rules" regarding sex should be cancelled. I think it is - at the end of the day - a judgement call. But the person making the call needs to know what they're getting into - and the risks involved. And the repercussions should fall only on those directly involved, not on the parents and the taxpayers.

Breathplayslut: Breaking rules? Only country that consider art or drawings as child porn is England.. atleast in Europe.. Im 99% sure of that.. not US and definitaly not Netherlands

US: "depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexual intercourse and lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value"

First of all, manga is art. Second, as multiple people said here, they looked like adults. Argument that in pokemon series they were young is weak.. and it is definitaly not proof.

Anyways can I ask you where do you live? Im just curious, really not trying to be hatefull here.. because it is legal in middle Europe to have sex with 15 years old, there is no age restriction on buying condoms. She also protects herself with pills, that is legal too obvisouly, as she needs to visit doctor to recieve them. If you dont study and complete just elementary school, you ofcourse have full time job or no money. She can sign contract by the age of 15 and she can buy anything.. phone? Really? 8 years old kids can buy their own phone here! She cant vote and drink.. that is true. Also she can have a baby AND the funny thing is, if she has a baby younger then 18, we can get married. Not like we are plannig that, Im still studying university as she plans too, but opportunity is there. And if she is older then 15 she is responsible for her crime, not parents. In some countries the line is even lower.

AngelAnna: Ironicaly, "your side of barricade" attacked first, but whatever.

I already said that.. I have nothing against ordinary people who believe in something if they are not affecting anyone else. The reason I asked for background was because there were no arguments at all.. He answered every argument against him with "Man, kids!" and that is familiar with "Its written in Bible!". Nothing more, it was innocent joke.

I think the intellectual side of this thread has long been lost so why don't you all stop flogging at a dead horse?

I hope breathplayslut will dont mind if I use her term here. If person sees something unfair and stupid, they should stick their head in the sand and not speak up?

It was not illegal content. It was arguable content. Admins took it down because people started to talk about it and they got afraid, that is all. Without this thread, nothing would happened.

breathplayslut wrote:pe·do·phile
/ˈpedəˌfīl/
Noun

• A person who is sexually attracted to children.

child
/CHīld/
Noun

• A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
  A son or daughter of any age.

So, by sheer definition in simplest terms, so as not to get confused, pedophilia is being sexually attracted to a young human below the age of full physical development.

I perfectly agree with those definitions.

What we don't agree on, and never will, is the idea that a 14+ year old person is a child. They are youth, and in many cases young adults.

Also, most girls don't complete their puberty at ages as high as 15-17 anymore. Sure, some will not complete until 19 or even more, just like some will be through puberty as low as 11, but those are both minorities. The majority starts at 9 and finish around 14-15. There has been significant change in this in the industrial world the last couple decades and it has steadily dropped in age all back to the 1920ies.

Mazi wrote:Breathplayslut: Breaking rules? Only country that consider art or drawings as child porn is England.. atleast in Europe.. Im 99% sure of that.. not US and definitaly not Netherlands

It was not illegal content. It was arguable content. Admins took it down because people started to talk about it and they got afraid, that is all. Without this thread, nothing would happened.

The site is based in California, from what I gather from earlier posts in this thread, so US law prevails, at least where matter of content is concerned.

There were several references to the legality - and indeed, based on some of the later posts and links, I would have to say that its questionable. There was mention made to the Wiki age of the character depicted, which in this case was underage in California, and hence removed. But you're right, if I hadn't mentioned it, I doubt it would have come to light. I would personally rather have seen the author replace the pictures, rather than take the tease offline.

Mazi wrote:
Anyways can I ask you where do you live? Im just curious, really not trying to be hatefull here.. because it is legal in middle Europe to have sex with 15 years old, there is no age restriction on buying condoms. She also protects herself with pills, that is legal too obvisouly, as she needs to visit doctor to recieve them. If you dont study and complete just elementary school, you ofcourse have full time job or no money. She can sign contract by the age of 15 and she can buy anything.. phone? Really? 8 years old kids can buy their own phone here! She cant vote and drink.. that is true. Also she can have a baby AND the funny thing is, if she has a baby younger then 18, we can get married. Not like we are plannig that, Im still studying university as she plans too, but opportunity is there. And if she is older then 15 she is responsible for her crime, not parents. In some countries the line is even lower.

I hope breathplayslut will dont mind if I use her term here. If person sees something unfair and stupid, they should stick their head in the sand and not speak up?

I live on the West coast of the United States, I'd prefer not to get any more detailed than that.

Thank you for the background of your particular circumstances - it was actually pretty enlightening. It sounds like not only where you live, her age is perfectly acceptable, but you guys actually have a game-plan. I'm glad it's working out for you, and wish you both the best of luck for the future. I honestly wish that every situation was like yours, I think the laws would be very different. Sadly, this just isn't the case - there have been young people abused by adults, and that's why the laws are the way they are. I don't wholeheartedly agree with them, but in this case, I think as a general rule of practice, "better safe than sorry".

And I don't mind at all you using the term. I'd like to think I could encourage more active participation between people, by getting them to speak up, rather than ignoring things.

Jan - I think you're probably right. The question here isn't sex, or even consensual sex, it's a squabble over "age of maturity". In my mind, 14 isn't old enough. In the laws eyes, 16 is just barely old enough. No point bickering over that - neither one of us is going to budge much, and I doubt we're going to change policy on a widespread scale. Lets just shake hands, agree to disagree, and move on.

child
/CHīld/
Noun

A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
A son or daughter of any age.


So, by sheer definition in simplest terms, so as not to get confused, pedophilia is being sexually attracted to a young human below the age of full physical development. Wiki relates this as:

Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17



So yes, technically possible for it not to qualify as pedophilia, but playing the odds, it's more likely than not.

did you read what you wrote? First you post a definition containing the words "Legal age of majority", and then completely forget about it.

Granted - there are places in the world that recognize age of consent at being younger than I'm used to. And I agree - voluntary is critical. So is maturity. If an immature person gives consent, is it really consent?

I'll leave the location behind, because, as said, in some places you can have sex being as young as 12.
But the other half of the statement... Maturity. How do you measure it? How do you know when a person becomes mature enough to make a judgement (specifically, a judgement to make love)? You can't. The sheer number is blind and often wrong. More often than not. Also, even adults in their 30s and 40s have disappointments in love, are being used and have problems. You can't be mature enough not to make mistakes when dealing with other person. But, look, a teenager is old enough to make any necessary decision and to survive on their own. The fact that other society deems you a child up to 18 and then SUDDENLY you are mature adult is stupid and wrong.
You ask can a consent of an immature person be really a consent. Define to me when do you turn mature? Are YOU mature? What makes you mature in comparison to a 15yo person? What do you have which he/she doesn't? Basically, only age. I'v met A LOT of old people who are more stupid and less calm, perceptive and cautious than some highschoolers. Our personality and brain is pretty much done developing by the age of 10-14. After that it's only experience accumulation. Young people make a lot of stupid things because hormones fry their brains up, but VERY VERY RARELY they think they have done it completely wrong when they grow up. No more than adults do. I look back to my teens and I'v made a whole lot of bad things, things I wouldn't do now, things that were STUPID. But I'm not sorry I'v done them, And I would not like to change those things any more, than I'd like to change some of the recent things I'v done. So, was my consent back there really a consent? Sure. I was mature ENOUGH to think on my own. So how does sex differ?
Let's say your daughter have a crush on a good 25yo young man. He's a normal guy. Will you forbid the relationship? Do you think that you know better what's good for your daughter? Do you think she'll say "Thank you" when she turns 18? I think she'll more likely say "You ruined my only true love I'v ever had!!!" Because she did not have a chance to see how imperfect he actually was. Or maybe he WAS perfect for her, and you indeed have just ruined her happiness by driving him away and saying you'll call police if he ever comes close again? Did you think of that?
It's not like this relationship will ruin her life. She's grown up enogh. If she thinks about boys and stuff she's grown enough to go out with them, and if she likes a guy who's 10 years older - she has a reason. Maybe a foolish reason. Worst comes to worst she'll have sex whth him, then he'll break her heart, she'll cry for two nights, eat ice-cream, and continue living to meet someone else. It's NATURAL*. He has the cahnce to be her only one just like every other male on her way. You may protect her by having a TALK, by buying her a box of condoms, by giving her your opinion on this kind of relationship, if you must. But forcing her to break up with the man she likes is cruel, stupid, and harms her WAY more, than anything he can possibly do to her.

*I said natural, but I should have said "normal". Human sexual life is not natural at all, because all nature spreads it's legs to a male who fights better and has the pelt of a brighter-coloured lion on his back.