CyberMistress Routines Backup

[Kenneth]

SexualChoc: thanks for your two cents! :)

If you follow that logics, then you had no right to take down people's custom content which you do not own.

I never hosted anything, only the links disappeared and I'm not preventing anyone from publishing them again. In fact, if you read some of the earlier posts, you see that there's still a way to contact the original authors .

Also, you still haven't explained what's really bothering you, instead you just keep attacking.

[Nezhul]

I'm not attacking you, as I stated before. What bothers me? I'd say it's just a little unfair to the fair users, and I see a ground for moral discussion here.
In general, I'm just spending my time discussing the interesting topic. I feel you'v done wrong and selfish, and I don't really like your post where you try to show it as a right thing to do in the best interests of a whole community. That's the root of my disagreement, and from that a tree of dialogue is growing.

Again, I'm not attacking you, I'm just not agreeing with you on a touchy (for you) matter, that's why you may feel offended. I already said - people always mistake one for the other.

[Kenneth]

Now you've at least explained why you've been posting that much in this topic.

So to sum up: by downloading/installing my content, you agreed not to distribute it yourself. That's my right, which was very clearly stated. Those who disagree with that agreement, were technically not allowed to install the software. You could also have a moral discussion about disrespecting the author's wishes, which is especially selfish since the program was offered for free, for all; with basically only one condition: no redistribution. (no, this is not an invitation to go down that road, we're way too off-topic already)

Is it selfish of me to shut down the board and the link to the program setup?
Maybe. But then you can also wonder: wouldn't it have been more selfish if I never shared it, if I asked money for it, if I ... . (again, let's not go down that road).

As for content by others: that goes by their rules, not mine.
I just added my two cents, it's always safer to check with the original author, which you still can (I could also have disabled private messaging completely or deleted all members or ...)

I do respect your wishes about your own content as well.

[SexualChoc]

If you follow that logics, then you had no right to take down people's custom content which you do not own. You have a right to do so with a program. But scripts is something credited to their authors, and they should be left avaliable if the authors wish so. Am I not right? Or did you have some rule in Licence Agreement about that it's your property - custom scripts?

Tough call.
Okay let say you write something on a blog
mydenailexpierence.blog.server
But the server stops being in production
Or you write original stuff and hand it over to a company
Yes it still yours
but the building is not there
if the program is dead
what good would a piece of a program do?

Almost think we need the Movie Tron to help rescue the lost programs
from the evil matrix computer? ??

Why are you so in favor of keeping a piece going when the patient is dead Nezhul?
Maybe if I could understand the why of it...

[nicetea]

As I have some experience with this kind of problem in another domain (emulation and new products for old computers), I think all choices made by the coders need to be respected, even if I prefer open source tools that can be distributed without any restriction.

Between the completely commercial close source and the completely free open source, there are so many variants. The computer world is so complex that you can perfectly use a completely free open source tool (for example Firefox) on an almost completely close source (for example Windows). The same can be applied for any kind of application, and in fine, the users have always the last word between different tools aiming at the same goals.

What's very important to understand can be exposed as follows :

- the copyright remains in almost all cases : freeware does not mean that copyright is abandoned, it's only the case when a product is declared 'public domain'
- freeware does not mean automatically that it can be distributed without any restriction, it's only the case especially when it's completely open source (it's more complex, but let's forget the details that are not interesting for non-experts)
- a text must always indicate the exact status of a software and every user should read it (here, I must say that it was indeed very clear for the CM utility, but generally not precised for other contents)

So, that's my contribution to this discussion, and I don't want to comment the recent decisions made by Kenneth. They have their own logic and their own coherence.

[slutty1]

but the building is not there
if the program is dead
what good would a piece of a program do?

Almost think we need the Movie Tron to help rescue the lost programs
from the evil matrix computer? ??

Why are you so in favor of keeping a piece going when the patient is dead Nezhul?
Maybe if I could understand the why of it...

Well, in my case, I was hoping to follow up on a suggestion that an old Cybermistress script might have some ideas that I might like. (http://www.milovana.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5897). I'm hoping that looking at the script will give me some ideas for a followup to one of my teases, even if I can't actually run it. Guess I shouldn't have waited 5 months to follow up on the tip...

[Evals]

Is it selfish of me to shut down the board and the link to the program setup?
Maybe. But then you can also wonder: wouldn't it have been more selfish if I never shared it, if I asked money for it, if I ... . (again, let's not go down that road).

Would it have been more selfish if you never shared it? I almost would have preferred it if it were never to be released to the public, instead of seeing authors putting in effort towards creating custom content for a framework that was doomed to fail in relatively short time. I would have rather liked to see that same effort put into creating content for something longer-lasting and more open like Virtual Master, or into creating flash teases here at Milovana. Instead, people put in work and creativity for a program whose author's choke hold on it was doomed to be its own demise.

Everybody's entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours. However, as a potential author that might have contributed something to the content pool for Cybermistress, that's why I personally never spent the time or effort. The quickest way to kill something is to retain too much control and limit what can be done with it. I think that's what happened.

[Nezhul]

Kenneth

Now I'm not arguing that you had a right to do so with your forum and your program. They are indeed yours, and that's true. If we talk about law you were in your rights.

BUT

You did a wrong thing as a man. You just gone and TRASHED months of combined people's effort, that they would clearly spend on something else if they knew it would end like this. You are trying to show us that the single purpose of your rule was in not receiving reports on older versions. But that's just a dumb statement, really. Say, I'v downloaded it from your site, played it for half a year, new version came out (which I don't care), and then I want to report something and you STILL receive report on older version. If you really wanted to shut down reports on older versions, you'd do a simple report form in the program, that checks the current version, and if the client's lower, asks to reinstall the client. If the version was adequate, the report is send. Banning redistribution will not help matters in ANY way. It'll only give a matter for trolls.
Yet again, you just gone and shut down a lot of people's work because you were pissed off by someone didn't obeying your rules! If that's not egoism, I don't know how to call it. I wonder, after that incident, how many people would be stupid enough to contribute in your NEXT creation, if it's even going to happen. They know now that you don't give a shit about anyone except yourself and your rules.

wouldn't it have been more selfish if I never shared it

It wouldn't. Your selfishness is not in deleting a program that was yours and free. It's in the way you brought down a lot of others people's work with it just because you wished so.
You'v posted already a silly comment that you didn't delete any content, only the links, and content still may be acessed via PM, but...
- I doubt many people will visit a dead forum to read PM's
- You can maybe restore only content known to you, you can't find something new.
- therefore downloads will drop and content will be lost in no time.
And all of this just to support your selfishness. Noone'd give a damn if you deleted your program that doesn't require hundreds of hours to build content for it. And that was not YOUR time, not your effort. Only the program, and maybe a few scripts were yours. The rest were other people's and you just did like a total bastard to just go ahead and trash it into dirt with your selfishness.
Moreover, You probably still has acess to your forums with all the links, and you have your program. You just spoiled the work for everyone except yourself. Grats. If that was RIGHT thing to do, than I'm the queen of US, your new absolute monarch.

wouldn't it have been more selfish if I asked money for it

No. If you have asked money you'd be sued for an action you just performed, therefore you'd never done so selfish thing. At least you may have stopped the distribution of the program, but you would not dare touch the content while there are users who PAID you.

[Kenneth]

..., instead of seeing authors putting in effort towards creating custom content for a framework that was doomed to fail in relatively short time.

If you read MistressAlexa's statement, you see that the work hasn't been for nothing. Her new program will support CM content. She also tries to get a backup of the work, which I'm not opposed to. Also, there was a CM rip-off program which can probably be used for most content. Also, nowadays, I wouldn't call six years "relatively short".

more open like Virtual Master

How's VM more open? It's old, no remarkable new features for years, closed source as well.
Only difference: they're still up. If you want a good example of "more open", take a look at PC Mistress 3...

Nezhul: I did make one mistake, I should have implemented *forced* auto updates from the beginning. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. As for content by others: see first answer in this post.

Banning redistribution will not help matters in ANY way. It'll only give a matter for trolls.

Apperently it does give a matter for trolls.

Actually, quite a lot of the PMs came from authors who completely understand my view and are looking forward to a new version. So far I've got three very negative reactions. Including yours, and it still puzzles me why you're being so dramatic about it if you don't care.

As for links still up: I deleted everything, there's nothing hidden.
"You just spoiled the work for everyone except yourself. " does not apply at all.
Other people who are just whining without a reason (no offense, but why all the hate if you really weren't interested at all? Am I supposed to believe it's just the principle? Why bother about a program and its content which you never cared about?), ruined my program for me. As for content, I've stated several times that I only tried one or two sessions created by others. Ever.

The Private messaging system still works for users who were in touch before.
And it can be used by people like MistressAlexa to communicate with authors.

(sarcasm) So next time, I should be selfish and keep my software to myself or ask money for it (/sarcasm)

So get your facts straight and try to respect the different wishes of another creator, as I do with yours.

[les]

Are we trying to say that as Kenneth was involved in something freely given .
He must now support that in perpetuity!

If so then seraph0x must maintain this site also for ever solely for the use of past and potential; authors .

I think I am lost.

What are we to do about "SubMatT"


Les

[Nezhul]

She also tries to get a backup of the work, which I'm not opposed to.

And wich would be very difficult and still would restore no more than 30-40% of the scripts since you made it very hard.

The Private messaging system still works for users who were in touch before.
And it can be used by people like MistressAlexa to communicate with authors.

Yes, it can be. But most of the autors will not respond to her, mark my words. Some will never know there WAS a PM. Some will read it but wouldn't have content/links saved. Some, I guess, lost interest long ago and forgot that they ever done something. One just can NOT succeed in restoring everything, and all of that - thanks to you.
Your words sound like ones of an Arsonist, who smiles and says that some goods can still be salvaged from a charred wreck.

Actually, quite a lot of the PMs came from authors who completely understand my view and are looking forward to a new version

It's just because most people understand that further offence to someone as nervous as you are won't make any good. That's why they write you good stuff in hopes that you'll get over it and reopen the board. But I wouldn't take it as an approval of your actions.

why you're being so dramatic about it if you don't care.

Am I supposed to believe it's just the principle?

Indeed you are supposed to belive it. And, between two of us, that would be true.

Other people .... ruined my program for me.

Again HOW. You didn't answer. As I see it you had some hot debate with someone, that freaked and pissed you out and you deleted everything. Indeed, punished thousends of your fans for some troll's actions. How can you justify it? You are trying, but it's mostly laughable.

So next time, I should be selfish and keep my software to myself or ask money for it

If you intend to trash everything up again after so much people worked hard for it - yes, I would say you should.

So get your facts straight and try to respect the different wishes of another creator, as I do with yours.

I respect them. I'm not hacking your site or pouring out gallons of shit on your head just to make you said. BUT please do understand that "Respect" and "Shut up" Are different words. I may respect your decision for a given ammount of respect. I don't have to like it. Nor I have to stay quiet about it.

If so then seraph0x must maintain this site also for ever solely for the use of past and potential; authors .

A bit different situation here.
1) Seraphox is actually HOSTING other people's property (scripts).
2) Everyone would understand if seraphox (or kenneth) could not maintain the site linger. That way it's noone's fault. But if seraphox tommorow drinks a lot of booze and goes to delete all content - well, he will be wrong to do so.
Of course he doesn't HAVE TO maintain everything. He doesnt owe that for anyone. But also he can't delete other people's work just because he wishes so.

What are we to do about "SubMatT"

Is that the guy who deleted he's teases? if so He had full right to do so, and can't be criticised in any case. You see, him deleting the teases didn't affect other people's work in any way. If Kenneth would delete the links to the program, yet leave all forums and links (which is not he's) intact - I wouldn't say a word.
There's such thing as not letting down people who trusted you. Keneth created a forums. He encouraged people to spend their time and make content, and share it on he's forums. And then he just deleted it all over some silly reason - really, how much of a nevrotic jerk (Sorry, can't figure better name for it) a man should be to perform such selfish and disgracefull act?

[Kenneth]

Again, I didn't host any content other than my own; and there are alternatives out there; plus apparently there's one more coming up.

Such rants *don't* seem respectful to my wishes about my *own* creations. You've made your opinion clear. What do you want? 50 more posts definding your view, claiming your opinion is the only right one? Perhaps you should've been Queen of a dictorial country then ;)

Actually, since the authors had to upload the files, it's most likely they have a backup. I'm not forbidding authors (lots of them are on here as well) to upload their content here, or post the links here. If Milovana would be down for some reason, I doubt if even 5% of the content could be restored.

About the ruining: it's well explained at my board. People (mostly lurkers) whining. Wanting content which is exclusive (still free though), while it's the *author's* wish (not mine, unless I am the author) to have it only available to active members. As it is my wish not to have any old content of mine around. Some people tried to get it behind my back anyway. So (apparently) apart from you, there are only two people complaining - in fact the ones who tried to get stuff behind my back and now don't have anything anymore at all. Lurkers who suddenly have have typing skills after all if a link is dead, rather than showing their typing skills by adding constructive comments AS WELL.

[Nezhul]

As it is my wish not to have any old content of mine around. Some people tried to get it behind my back anyway.

And it's still doesn't make any sence. Your content still will be reposted, as well as CM core program. Not on your forum tho. It's sad you had your wishes on the matter of CONTENT violated, but it's still way too selfish to bring down the whole forum just because a few jerks make you sad.

If Milovana would be down for some reason, I doubt if even 5% of the content could be restored.

I don't mind if it'll be down due to some unforseen and unavoidable trouble. Noone can blame seraphox for that. BUT if he would bring it down just because of he's sick wish - well, he'll be no better than you, which is not a compliment at all. But I don't see him ever doing it, judging on my past relationships with him. He's REASONABLE, you'r not.

Your selfishness goes so far that you can't even see the problem when explained it for a dozen of times. I'm off. That won't lead anywhere.

[Kenneth]

You're the one to have a problem with it, not me.
But let's finally end this discussion unless you really want to add something else.

And off-topic: Seraph0x is a great guy :D

[Kenneth]

Wow, quite surprised by your post, Indigo.
Actually I'm glad that you let this discussion go on for so long, as I tried to be civilized.

Thanks for your support!