[RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by onlytropics »

desertfox wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:19 am Basically the closest thing we have in porn to a plot now a day is 'oh no, i'm banging my mom/daughter/sister' so anything else will do really.
That is so true unfortunately. Apart from the fantasy series like Canto, the first things that come to my mind are Prime's University and World videos. It seems it is not that easy to come up with a story that is at least loosely reasonable in todays day and age. Well I for sure couldn't come up with one :-/

Although, now thinking of it, I just remembered a video I found on pornhub a few weeks ago, just a couple going up a mountain. As soon as they are alone, she undresses and you can see she had a buttplug in all the time. It's your guess how the video continues... Anyway that would actually be some "story plot" you could make a CH video about. I have no idea where you would find the necessary video pieces to put this together.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by Caius Prepus »

As another exemple of a video with a plot, the Island Serie. Everybody like the Island video and the plot, storylike format as certainly a lot to do with it.

Other matters, somebody uploaded your video on Empornium, Maybe it is you and in this case it is fine. But I guess that if it is not you, maybe you would like to know...
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by book_guy »

Not sure I understand the veiled references to (anti-?)-religious positions. Therefore, must watch and decide for myself. Therefore, am downloading. :w00t:
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by lurkmuch »

Caius Prepus wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:03 pm Everybody like the Island video and the plot, storylike format as certainly a lot to do with it.
Well, no, not everybody. The statement "Everybody likes big breasts" might be related, and also isn't true. Still a great work, which I can understand the majority could fully enjoy.

Works similar to Symbols of faith would include:
- CH Inferno
- CH Fantasy
- CH Vampire
- Champions of Cocknia
- once upon a Succubi Land

book_guy wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:16 pm Therefore, must watch and decide for myself. Therefore, am downloading. :w00t:
...is the correct conclusion. 'Don't let the OP make you shy away', was my point. You'd be missing out on a(n) (un)godly-quality video, with countless hours of painstaking work behind it.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by A Ghoul Editor »

Thanks everybody for watching and for sharing your comments, both the praise and all the positive and negative feedback

I don't want to reply with my own opinion to specific comments because I want to let the movie and presentation speak for itself and to read your unbiased reactions. But I did want to say that I read all the comments carefully and I appreciate them.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by fragrantEmulsion »

A Ghoul Editor wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:01 pm God said: No beat meter or extra beat sound effect.
Why? My major criticism is the lack of this sound effect/meter. I have pretty good rhythm regardless but I appreciate clarity.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by A Ghoul Editor »

fragrantEmulsion wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:02 am
A Ghoul Editor wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:01 pm God said: No beat meter or extra beat sound effect.
Why? My major criticism is the lack of this sound effect/meter. I have pretty good rhythm regardless but I appreciate clarity.
God is not the author of such confusion!
1 Corinthians 14:33


Idk how long I can keep this up. I don't remember the whole bible by heart. :whistle:

This is a perfectly reasonable question and a topic of wider debate. As such I think it is appropriate to address it.

I've been here or at least not too far away since at least 2012. I found andyp's early Cock Heroes somewhere. The end credits mentioned milovana and that's how I found the site. I immediately knew that there was something special about the Cock Hero format. But I didn't realize what the core element was until tribes hit us with DanceWORKOUT.

This changed everything. I realized that the elements that made CH appealing to me were not beat meters or trying not to finish. Instead it was the dancing, the smiles, the music. Then vindicare came and took it to the next level with the exceptionally popular Flux Dance Project. You'll notice that the idea of "fast,normal,slow,stop" in Symbol of Faith and even the text colors are copied directly from the Flux Dance Project.

Since I'm doing the namedropping, here are some more works that have really stood out to me over the years.

Horken: For introducing composites with softcore scenes on top of cumshot scenes and introducing me to short-duration PMVs with his multiple videos.
Hentype: For the non-stop mix and heavy dancing of Tease (I didn't like the scenes in the ending. But I liked the rest so much that I did my own re-edit. Haven't posted it anywhere. The climax of that re-edit went into the club scene in Symbol of Faith).
Sissy Sandra: For introducing narrative to Cock Hero with Champion of Cocknia
laughingkor: For the powerful intro of Mindwarp.

In conclusion, I've probably only played a CH properly maybe once or twice back in the day. I'm all about the PMVs. I usually do a little cheat where I listen to the music in advance to get a feel for where the drops are. Then I just sit down and calmly enjoy the entire thing, staying on the edge as much as possible. Just like with the real thing, I enjoy being in control.

Ultimately I think it's a matter of personal preference, but that's how it works for me.

P.S. The reason for no audible beat in lieu of a visible meter is the same reason for the soft subtitles: I wanted to have the option of just the pure music and visuals.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by lurkmuch »

I would concur here, SoF does well without a beat meter - one's attention can be fully directed to the bountiful Host (esses... Terrible joke).

The soundtrack has very clear beats that work nicely without additional 'woodblock sounds'; and the chants, well, certainly give you a feeling of freedom... Though the "edge prayer" was unsettling/uncalled for, but not in a bad way?

I still feel like a bit more teasing/instructions here and there would be great, but I can understand they could become diverting, if not invasive.

TL/DR: SoF is fine as is, and should gain much 'replay value' after one is familiar with its quirks.

PS: the polar opposite would be Mr123's NEXT - where the creator purposedly messes with your control/rythm. There isn't a better or worse option; variety is a good thing :yes:
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by 3xTripleXXX »

desertfox wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:19 am Basically the closest thing we have in porn to a plot now a day is ‘oh no, i’m banging my mom/daughter/sister’ so anything else will do really.
While the plot is certainly loose enough, I do enjoy the tongue-in-cheek style of some of the Brazzers stuff. Porn Logic with Lena Paul and Angela White was particularly amusing in a meta sort of way. Just happened to see it while researching material for my next CH, and this reminded me of that. :)
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by Mr123 »

lurkmuch wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:51 am PS: the polar opposite would be Mr123's NEXT - where the creator purposedly messes with your control/rythm. There isn't a better or worse option; variety is a good thing :yes:
You‘re right @lurkmuch. I like that you named CH - Next as an example.
I just played it for the first time in years, right after SoF, and I have to admit
that I really fucked up the beats with this one :lol:
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by lurkmuch »

Mr123 wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:00 pm You‘re right @lurkmuch. I like that you named CH - Next as an example.
I just played it for the first time in years, right after SoF, and I have to admit
that I really fucked up the beats with this one :lol:
More like, the beats fuck you up :lol: All the more if you're receptive to the music. (I meant opposite in concept)
Round 5's belly dancing x irregular double time is pure EVIL. I mentioned NEXT, as a gem among CHs (reward round aside... Which would matter, weren't round 8 ingrained as 'reward round' by now :whistle:).


As for SoF, the 14:00 prayer sounding suspiciously similar to a certain sentence, in a certain language (*cough idioma*), doesn't really help keeping the impure, wordly thoughts at bay. I somewhat regret, being so wary/on guard during the first view; but that's clearly on me :-/

Like the other best CHs, both are a great experience when viewed/listened with your full attention.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by fragrantEmulsion »

A Ghoul Editor wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:47 am I realized that the elements that made CH appealing to me were not beat meters or trying not to finish. Instead it was the dancing, the smiles, the music. Then vindicare came and took it to the next level with the exceptionally popular Flux Dance Project. You'll notice that the idea of "fast,normal,slow,stop" in Symbol of Faith and even the text colors are copied directly from the Flux Dance Project.
The dancing and music is probably my favorite part of CH, so maybe that's why I like this production. I am okay with simple instructions as long as the music can carry the beat. Your production is an exception, not the rule. There are other videos with beat instructions that don't make any sense when it comes to the rhythm.
A Ghoul Editor wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:47 am Hentype: For the non-stop mix and heavy dancing of Tease (I didn't like the scenes in the ending. But I liked the rest so much that I did my own re-edit. Haven't posted it anywhere. The climax of that re-edit went into the club scene in Symbol of Faith).
Please post it. Hentype's Tease PMV is really good and I'd like a copy that isn't hosted on 720p hub.
A Ghoul Editor wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:47 am Just like with the real thing, I enjoy being in control.
I agree with you that sometimes it is better to stroke to your own whims and that the soft instructions in this video help with that. In a way, jerking it to the beat of a PMV is like dancing.

However, there is something to be said about a strict beat meter; relinquishing control and letting the video decide your fate is part of the reason I enjoy CH. Earn Your Release is a stellar example of what I'm talking about.

It is satisfying when a complex beat is just complicated enough to keep me guessing. Though the simple 1-2-3-4 pump can be quite difficult over long periods of time, throwing in a 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 keeps the production interesting.

Then there's the whole idea that you never know what's coming up next in terms of both music and visuals. This is especially exciting when you are on edge and have maybe 10 seconds left before you blow; sometimes there's a break, sometimes there's a double time and you're fucked.
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by Mr123 »

lurkmuch wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:12 pm
Mr123 wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:00 pm You‘re right @lurkmuch. I like that you named CH - Next as an example.
I just played it for the first time in years, right after SoF, and I have to admit
that I really fucked up the beats with this one :lol:
More like, the beats fuck you up :lol: All the more if you're receptive to the music. (I meant opposite in concept)
Round 5's belly dancing x irregular double time is pure EVIL. I mentioned NEXT, as a gem among CHs (reward round aside... Which would matter, weren't round 8 ingrained as 'reward round' by now :whistle:).
:whistle: Now I understand what you mean. I had to slow down for the belly dancing. As evil as the one-image-per-beat-parts.

I like to re-edit/re-use songs I already used for CH-Clips.
So "Angel Eyes" will be a part of my next project, although there is a male singer.
However, there is something to be said about a strict beat meter; relinquishing control and letting the video decide your fate is part of the reason I enjoy CH. Earn Your Release is a stellar example of what I'm talking about.

Amen, brother fragrant emulsion
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by book_guy »

About the lack of beat-meters ...

Personal preference -- a cock hero style video must include some form of INSTRUCTION about how I "must" stroke. This is what distinguishes, in my personal mind, between a porn-music-video and a cock-hero. I enjoy both, for different occasions and desires, but I wouldn't necessarily want to watch a CH if it were nothing more than a PMV unless it excelled in terms of the PMV characteristics which I might prefer. In other words, if you claim something is a CH, you gotta (IMO) put in some explicit and attention-requiring instructions (not just "freestyle it baby" or "stroke to the music from now on"), or else it won't necessarily pique my interest. Instructional.

How to instruct? Well, personally (again), I can enjoy that instruction if it comes in the form of words stating "go this fast," or in the form of a beat-meter (though the visual implementation of some beat-meters is more distracting and therefore of negative impact than that of others), or in the form of a sound-cue. Or a mix of any or all of the above or any other creative elements you can work out. I understand that the creation of the beat-meter, the synchronizing its sounds with the music and with any on-screen visual indicators, is a major portion of the difficult task of creating a CH. I have great appreciation for the Stroker Ace series of videos, which do not (IIRC) present a visual beat meter, though they do offer visual text statements of what the next beat will be, and it does have a cow-bell indicator sound.

But text indications are problematic. I have mild problem with the visual text statements at any point in time (whether in "Stroker Ace" or not) because I never REALLY know what the author wants. "1 - 1" can be interpreted in a wide range of manners and it's frustrating to me that many creators don't really seem to think that their statement of a set of numbers is, in any manner, ambiguous, but it obviously is totally ambiguous. If you post only a text indication that contains some kind of numerical information, you are HIGHLY likely to be leaving a non-explicit instruction which can be interpreted in at least two manners, and therefore in at least one wrong manner. The sound indicator or the visual beat-meter generally serves to make explicit that which the text has failed to make explicit. Something other than the text, helps us choose between the two, three, or eleven possible valid interpretations of the otherwise ambiguous text. If you just say, "1 - 1" or "3 - 2 - 3 - 2" I don't know how fast your 1s, 2s, and 3s, will be at all. I can do those beats at any of about six rates, each rate true to the textual statement. That means, those instructions are pretty much inadequate.

I am pretty sure that most of us will encounter that problem (textual numbers being ambiguous) whenever the instructions are indicated solely by textual statements of numbers. The instructions, as intended by the creator, often CAN be figured out by the viewer, but it's ANNOYING to have to do so, because it implies that the creator seems to think that he has been clear when he, simply, has not. And yet the entire premise of INSTRUCTIONS, is that they are OVERTLY CLEAR. You can't tell someone "do something" without also making sure that the "something" is absolutely and fully defined. Otherwise all you're saying is, "do whatever you want," in which case you might as well say, "I don't give a shit, this isn't instructions," and thus your CH is actually PMV.

If you don't read music, I suggest you go to a Wikipedia page to learn the durations of the notes of standard Western art music notation, just to get an idea of what you're working against in this problem. Even if you master the notes (whole, half, quater, dotted, eighth, etc.) you can't really use those symbols on screen, either, since we don't know what your pulse-beat is (i.e., if you put up that we should stroke to quarter notes, are those occurring in the sounds at 120 beats per minute or 60?). It's not easy to indicate, and I don't mean to suggest that traditional Western art music notation should be used (it too would be ambiguous in its own ways), but I do mean to suggest that explicit instructions aren't explicit if they are ambiguous, and therefore they aren't even instructions.

BTW, IIRC, I haven't watched this particular video ("Symbol of Faith") yet, though I did download it. I'm thankful someone created it, with its excellent details, some of which may or may not be the beat instructions produced in any manner that I personally prefer.

And, finally ... plenty of other people have other opinions on the matter, and their preferences may or may not be more mainstream or general than mine, of course, etc., yadda yadda. Thanks fer yer time. :)
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Re: [RELEASE] Symbol of Faith

Post by barebone123 »

book_guy wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:49 pm About the lack of beat-meters ...

Personal preference -- a cock hero style video must include some form of INSTRUCTION about how I "must" stroke. This is what distinguishes, in my personal mind, between a porn-music-video and a cock-hero. I enjoy both, for different occasions and desires, but I wouldn't necessarily want to watch a CH if it were nothing more than a PMV unless it excelled in terms of the PMV characteristics which I might prefer. In other words, if you claim something is a CH, you gotta (IMO) put in some explicit and attention-requiring instructions (not just "freestyle it baby" or "stroke to the music from now on"), or else it won't necessarily pique my interest. Instructional.

How to instruct? Well, personally (again), I can enjoy that instruction if it comes in the form of words stating "go this fast," or in the form of a beat-meter (though the visual implementation of some beat-meters is more distracting and therefore of negative impact than that of others), or in the form of a sound-cue. Or a mix of any or all of the above or any other creative elements you can work out. I understand that the creation of the beat-meter, the synchronizing its sounds with the music and with any on-screen visual indicators, is a major portion of the difficult task of creating a CH. I have great appreciation for the Stroker Ace series of videos, which do not (IIRC) present a visual beat meter, though they do offer visual text statements of what the next beat will be, and it does have a cow-bell indicator sound.

But text indications are problematic. I have mild problem with the visual text statements at any point in time (whether in "Stroker Ace" or not) because I never REALLY know what the author wants. "1 - 1" can be interpreted in a wide range of manners and it's frustrating to me that many creators don't really seem to think that their statement of a set of numbers is, in any manner, ambiguous, but it obviously is totally ambiguous. If you post only a text indication that contains some kind of numerical information, you are HIGHLY likely to be leaving a non-explicit instruction which can be interpreted in at least two manners, and therefore in at least one wrong manner. The sound indicator or the visual beat-meter generally serves to make explicit that which the text has failed to make explicit. Something other than the text, helps us choose between the two, three, or eleven possible valid interpretations of the otherwise ambiguous text. If you just say, "1 - 1" or "3 - 2 - 3 - 2" I don't know how fast your 1s, 2s, and 3s, will be at all. I can do those beats at any of about six rates, each rate true to the textual statement. That means, those instructions are pretty much inadequate.

I am pretty sure that most of us will encounter that problem (textual numbers being ambiguous) whenever the instructions are indicated solely by textual statements of numbers. The instructions, as intended by the creator, often CAN be figured out by the viewer, but it's ANNOYING to have to do so, because it implies that the creator seems to think that he has been clear when he, simply, has not. And yet the entire premise of INSTRUCTIONS, is that they are OVERTLY CLEAR. You can't tell someone "do something" without also making sure that the "something" is absolutely and fully defined. Otherwise all you're saying is, "do whatever you want," in which case you might as well say, "I don't give a shit, this isn't instructions," and thus your CH is actually PMV.

If you don't read music, I suggest you go to a Wikipedia page to learn the durations of the notes of standard Western art music notation, just to get an idea of what you're working against in this problem. Even if you master the notes (whole, half, quater, dotted, eighth, etc.) you can't really use those symbols on screen, either, since we don't know what your pulse-beat is (i.e., if you put up that we should stroke to quarter notes, are those occurring in the sounds at 120 beats per minute or 60?). It's not easy to indicate, and I don't mean to suggest that traditional Western art music notation should be used (it too would be ambiguous in its own ways), but I do mean to suggest that explicit instructions aren't explicit if they are ambiguous, and therefore they aren't even instructions.

BTW, IIRC, I haven't watched this particular video ("Symbol of Faith") yet, though I did download it. I'm thankful someone created it, with its excellent details, some of which may or may not be the beat instructions produced in any manner that I personally prefer.

And, finally ... plenty of other people have other opinions on the matter, and their preferences may or may not be more mainstream or general than mine, of course, etc., yadda yadda. Thanks fer yer time. :)
Word, brother.

My favorite UI for the genre so far include traditional CH beat meters (when timed to the music, etc...what book_guy said above), Earn your Release and the Edge and Ruin video. The instruction needs to be clear, specific and as professionally presented as possible. The extra effort is well worth it, because without it it's frustrating to play (and not in a fun way :) and just not what you know it could be. There are great tools for making beat meters available today and timer/countdown plugins for video editing tools.

Especially with gorgeous editing, adding the game play element makes a good video pop.
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