General Health Warning

[Amon]

Sup,
Want to warn the more typically dom/swtich etc guys that this inferiority and submission stuff does get into your head and creeps into your life.

Got into Milovana a long ass time ago, closing on 10 years now! Got into it due to the guided masturbation angle much more than interest in any of the 'fetish stuff', it just made those 'porno times' way better vs loading a tube site and jacking it to completion.

I planned to ignore the bits I wasn't into (especially the denials, belittling language, cross dressing + feminization) and had some pretty great times exploring all kinds of "fun" stuff.
Shout outs to the fantastic authors putting out some incredible, deep and well thought out stuff. Shattered, whyme98543, domTanya and Sexytimes 5 are among my faves - check em out!

Anyway, of course I experimented with some of the fetish stuff now and then over the years and without really realising it I feel as though all the negative 'sub language' on here seeped in and overall made me feel more worthless/low status etc in my everyday life. Has probably put a bit of a tailspin on my outlook the last couple of years at least. A few weeks ago I even bought a cock cage and enjoyed using it when my gf was out the house, felt like i needed and 'deserved it'. (it also really does boost the physical experience in teases that require it over just pretending!)

So yeah about a week ago, no idea why exactly, but I woke up to all this and have pretty much quit the lot and am feeling a whole lot more positive, confident and happier day to day and much more like my old self. Don't think I'll ever wear the cage, a collar or a plug ever again!

All this long ass post to say - yeah this site is a damn good time but unless you are really sub (and nothing wrong with that!) keep an eye out for this mindset creeping in and probably take breaks of a few weeks/months from the site now and then to check in with yourself.

Also highly recommend the Cock Hero vids (that originated here ty andyp!) for anyone else out there like me. They satisfies the 'guided'' itch like crazy with none of the 'sub stuff'. Plus you'll appreciate that you know how long that shit is before hitting play - these teases can be anything from 10min to 2 hours+ with rarely any warning!

I'm sure I'll be checking back from time to time as there's some great work here but for now I'm taking a break

Congrats if anyone actually reads to the end - reply with the tease authors that top your favourites list!
And have a good one!

-Amon

[kerkersklave]

I always dislike it, if people blame lack of self-confidence or whatever on kink. You enjoyed some kinky stuff and at some point maybe figured it is not for you. That is fine, that does not make it risky in any way to try.
The BDSM-world has a certain risk for people that really lack in self-confidence, doubt there self-worth or have related, psychological problems. E.g. if one believes to deserve punishment for something or be below others, one should find someone to talk to, not some fucked up person that exploits that and calls it BDSM.
But trying out some kinks, even if they are not for you in the end, isn't dangerous or something that will cause any issues you do not already have.

[GodDragon]

I always dislike it, if people blame lack of self-confidence or whatever on kink. You enjoyed some kinky stuff and at some point maybe figured it is not for you. That is fine, that does not make it risky in any way to try.
The BDSM-world has a certain risk for people that really lack in self-confidence, doubt there self-worth or have related, psychological problems. E.g. if one believes to deserve punishment for something or be below others, one should find someone to talk to, not some fucked up person that exploits that and calls it BDSM.
But trying out some kinks, even if they are not for you in the end, isn't dangerous or something that will cause any issues you do not already have.

Agree 100%. Before acting submissive you must make sure that you know it's only a "game" and shouldn't be translated to real life. For most people it is a thing that is connected to sexual arousal even if actions don't have to be sexual in any way. If you are mentally ill in real life and depressive, alone or anything else of course you shouldn't enter the submissive position because it will only harm you. But someone that is happy, feels good and is stable shouldn't worry about any harm. Physical harm can be a problem if you don't know your limits but your mind should be safe.
If you feel better now that is great for you but don't scare of people like that. You should never do something that's against your will. BDSM isn't about someone taking full control over you but more like you and your "partner" working together to give full control to each other for a time span. Nothing that should be permenant and most importantly it shouldn't make you feel bad. I know there are some hardcore people out there that really submit their whole life to someone as a slave but that's not common.
There are also positive aspects to BDSM: For example denial can lead to more happiness, because most people report that continues mastuarbation as a male will cause you to be tired, exhausted which leads to you needing another orgasm for some relief, which then makes you even more depressed etc. Not to mention that talking to your partner about personal stuff like this will strengthen your relationship and improve it.

Imo you should talk to your girl friend if haven't already and try it together. There is a difference between loving bdsm and harsh bdsm. In a relationship with a partner it should always be loving in some way. This doesn't means that your partner should just not be too strict but it should ALWAYS be clear that you are loved and that it's just a play.
There should be aftercare btw. and it seems like you've never experienced aftercare which could explain your issues.

[thatsprettyhot]

I'm not sure the point of this was to highlight if someone has problems with their self-confidence, feeling of self-worth or psychological problems, but to instead warn that constant negativity or repeated acts that make someone feel inferior might affect anyone.

Good post from OP, and missing the point but useful general conversation afterwards anyway.

Let's not judge or play a doctor, but encourage that it's a good idea to think every now and then about what you're doing and how it's possibly affecting you or others. One love

[kerkersklave]

I don't think, I've missed the point. I do not believe, that following some or even a lot of teases has a negative effect, even if they contain humiliation and similar kinks. Not, if you do not already believe you are somehow inferior.
Sure, if you are treated in a negative way by other people all the time, that will affect anyone. But we are not talking about that, we are talking about consuming some interactive fiction.
And what I dislike is this doubt that is somehow always spread when it comes to sexual activity, you can hear that about masturbation, about porn and about kink. But it is not more dangerous as any kind of other media.

[thatsprettyhot]

I don't think, I've missed the point. I do not believe, that following some or even a lot of teases has a negative effect, even if they contain humiliation and similar kinks. Not, if you do not already believe you are somehow inferior.
Sure, if you are treated in a negative way by other people all the time, that will affect anyone. But we are not talking about that, we are talking about consuming some interactive fiction.

So effectively, through you not believing in negative effects, you diagnose OP with the aforementioned problems.

The first post is just a fair warning, and I don't know how judging or diagnosing him with some problems is helping.

[polkadotwolf]

The judging seems unnecessary. This is this person's experience and they stated it very 'softly' as clearly their experience and simply "hey, this was my experience, maybe keep an eye out if you feel similar negativity creeping into your life." No reason to try to invalidate it because you have not personally experienced this yourself.

There are addictive elements to femdom and some people are more susceptible to that and this can be negative. Most femdom is degrading. Constantly being degraded may affect you personally. Think of the abused spouse or child for instance. Are they solely to blame for their negative self-image and negative feelings? I think most people would say "no". Some aspects of femdom kink definitely seem like they could be detrimental. Being seduced into associating arousal with paying money to a domme is one concrete example. Should this association/fetish-creation succeed it could be very detrimental to some individuals that are susceptible to addiction in general. I have no doubt there are many men out there that have been financially ruined this way. One could simply dismiss them as 'idiots' or 'weak-minded', just like one could say the same about any addict, but this seems harsh and unfair (at least to me).

Anyways, the whole concept of 'submission' is basically about giving in to an addiction, to a 'naughtiness', to fringe behavior that is inherently negative because this makes one feel good in a way they feel slightly ashamed of. Maybe you are thinking "I don't feel ashamed of it!", but would you have a casual discussion about it with your coworkers? Probably not.

Likely there are events in ones childhood where this happened and the fetish stems from that. A large part of the appeal for many is that this feeling, this 'addiction', is beyond their control. For most this is always just fantasy, but for others it is real. I see no reason to dismiss these people's experience as 'invalid' just because that is not one's own personal experience.

[kerkersklave]

So effectively, through you not believing in negative effects, you diagnose OP with the aforementioned problems.

The OP stated that he felt worthless in everyday life. So I did not diagnose that, he stated it.
Also, I did not "diagnose" him in a medical sense. One can feel insecure or somewhat negative about one-selves without it being pathological. On the contrary, it is just a normal part of life, especially at a young age. But I do not believe such doubts come from following some web-teases.

The first post is just a fair warning, and I don't know how judging or diagnosing him with some problems is helping.

It is a warning, but warnings can also frighten people. It is quite common that people with kinky fantasies start out doubting themselves as these things are not yet completely socially accepted. And if someone posts a "health warning" that can in my opinion add to that. Not on its own, but such "warnings" pop up now and then.

You see it differently, fine. No reason to claim I would have misunderstood something.

[kerkersklave]

No reason to try to invalidate it because you have not personally experienced this yourself.

Well, his statement is not that clear, but he called it a "health warning" thereby bringing pathology into the context of kink. I dislike that, that is what I voiced. I am a bit startled by the aggressive responses towards an opinion.

There are addictive elements to femdom and some people are more susceptible to that and this can be negative.

Well, almost everything can be addictive, if you define addiction in the right way. And we are not talking a real Femdom relationship here, just fiction.

Constantly being degraded may affect you personally. Think of the abused spouse or child for instance.

How did we get from web teases to child abuse?
These are exactly the kind of arguments I do not like. If you have some BDSM fantasies and do some webteases, this is perfectly safe. Sure, if you feel bad about yourself, think about your life. But otherwise, no reason to worry about addiction, loss of confidence or whatever.

Being seduced into associating arousal with paying money to a domme is one concrete example.

I doubt it is easy or even possible to do that. What certainly has a huge influence on humans are personal relationships, and one person can gain huge influence over an other, and be brought to accept abuse of all kinds. This happens all the time in all kinds of relationships. You are probably more likely to be abused by a teacher as a kid than by a femdom as a young adult, but it surely is possible. But the effects of consuming fiction are in my opinion largely overrated. And the evidence for such effects are very weak, they are however claimed in many cases.

I have no doubt there are many men out there that have been financially ruined this way.

Sure, same as many people have been ruined by all kinds of healers, fortune tellers, etc. Cases like that are documented in the millions. People ruined by fiction are extremely rare.

One could simply dismiss them as 'idiots' or 'weak-minded',

Yes, but I have never talked about that in any way. You have escalated this topic completely.

Anyways, the whole concept of 'submission' is basically about giving in to an addiction

No, it is not. Same as having vanilla sex is not. I cannot disagree with this strongly enough.

to fringe behavior that is inherently negative

You are kind of proofing my point. It is exact this kind of thinking, that I am scared of. It starts with a nice "health warning" and now you are calling it "fringe hehavior that is inherently negative".

but would you have a casual discussion about it with your coworkers? Probably not.

And? Many gay people do not have that, and most certainly did not 50 years ago. It is not socially accepted, does not mean I am or need to be ashamed of it.

Likely there are events in ones childhood where this happened and the fetish stems from that.

Oh boy... I have a lot of fetishes and no childhood experiences to associate with it.
We are now right in the middle of pathologizing kinky fantasies.
And this I consider really dangerous, because it really makes people believe there is something wrong with them when there is not.

Personally, I believe, kinks are just variations that have there root in common behavior. E.g. some loss of control is arousing to many people, BDSM just takes it further. It is the opposite side of average behavior, same as there are people with very littler to no sexual interest, there are people with very vivid sexual fantasies. Does not make it pathological.

[GodDragon]

I'm not sure the point of this was to highlight if someone has problems with their self-confidence, feeling of self-worth or psychological problems, but to instead warn that constant negativity or repeated acts that make someone feel inferior might affect anyone.

Good post from OP, and missing the point but useful general conversation afterwards anyway.

Let's not judge or play a doctor, but encourage that it's a good idea to think every now and then about what you're doing and how it's possibly affecting you or others. One love

I think no one here is trying to diagnose the OP or blame him. I think everyone is happy for him because he found a way to deal with the emotions he experienced. But a health warning is a bit overkill imo. It's ALWAYS important to look after yourself no matter what you do, but there is no particular reason why following fictional teases online or even being in a relationship with "loving" bdsm makes you feel inferior in every day life and unhappy in general. Everybody needs to check themselves but a general warning is out of place imo. Of course some people could take it too serious but this shouldn't be the normality. I know the OP had no bad intentions but if the title was different no one would've felt like this is wrong. If he just called the thread something like: My personal story or Story of taking a break no one would've complained imo. Right now it's like Teases are gonna break you no matter what.

[Ryuteka]

Thanks for sharing your experience, but i think this is something personal.
Every guys is different.
If i have to talk about me, i can say i'm new to all this stuff. I'm trying an online mistress right now and i like it, i like the femdom and the humiliation, but this is when i'm playing with her.
In my RL, i'm myself, and nobody can think to rule over me. femdom and humiliation still excites me, but this comes if i choose to play this role of submissive, otherwise absolutely not. This is something that never will change in me.

[thatsprettyhot]

To summarize, someone aggroed over a title that said warning, and someone personally thinks otherwise, and keeps jumping to conclusions that it must therefore apply to everyone. OP was also not diagnosed medically but it was very strongly implied that only a faulty person can get negative things out of it all.

Rubbish, we can do a lot better. I'm just happy someone is still willing to share, regardless of the bullshit.

[kerkersklave]

To summarize

I do not appreciate your passive aggressive "summaries". No, that is not an adequate summary of the discussion, it is your interpretation of it, and you try to invalidate the arguments in the discussion.

[GodDragon]

To summarize, someone aggroed over a title that said warning, and someone personally thinks otherwise, and keeps jumping to conclusions that it must therefore apply to everyone. OP was also not diagnosed medically but it was very strongly implied that only a faulty person can get negative things out of it all.

Rubbish, we can do a lot better. I'm just happy someone is still willing to share, regardless of the bullshit.

We are NOT blaming him in anyway neither are we diagnozing him wtf. We are just critizing his title and trying to help him with his issue. We are a helpful community and we want him and everyone else to be happy. If at any point the OP felt wrongly accused or blamed he can tell us and I will edit my messages to reflect what I originally meant. Feel free to pick out passages of my text too if you feel like a sentence is over the top.
The problem with the title is that it's basically the same as me drinking apple juice and then suddenly realising that I am somehow allergic to apples and thus posting something like: 'General health warning'" I felt sick from drinking apple juice daily and now I am much better because I took a break. I would advice anyone to take a break from drinking apple juice."

In my opinion this is just very misleading and should instead read something like: "Submission translating to real life" or "My issues with daily submission and real life" or something similar. Right now it might scare people of. While it is always important to look after yourself you should not unneccessarily scare people. It's not about people checking on themselfes but more like people not living their kinks at all because they feel like there is a big risk to it while there shouldn't be one.

[onlytropics]

I do agree that this discussion has gotten a bit aggressive, or at least picky, at some points. Which I do not really understand because the topic at hand should not endorse that.

Mental health is not something easy to diagnose, or diagnose yourself with. It is also not a black-and-white thing, but rather a large scale with lots of colours. Some people might be susceptible to this or that idea, and might not notice how it affects your real life. Not quickly at least, since playtime is so much fun.

A friend of mine was once in a sub-domme relationship - they were not together, they just had weekly sessions together but were both seeing other people. He was over 30 at that time. I remember once we all were going out together, as a group of friends, when she suddenly slapped him hard in the face over nothing (it was just a normal discussion) saying something along the lines of "You know you deserve it". That was when I knew things had gone too far.
He did have a mental breakdown a few months later. It took him quite some time to recover.

So I guess we can all agree that things can go bad. As long as it's fun, that's great. It is sometimes hard to foresee. If at one point you have the feeling that being submissive is bad for your mental health, you should stop. If at one point you feel a lot better while just 'taking a break', you should stop. That is what I read from OPs post.

I don't think the subject of the topic is badly chosen. Maybe rushed, but still fine. In any ballbusting tease you start, there usually is a disclaimer that asks you to stay safe, and only follow along within reason. I have yet to see a sub-domme-tease with such a disclaimer on mental health. I'm not saying every tease should have that, neither am I saying there should be a general disclaimer when you start any tease. But a forum post saying that you should always look after yourself is totally reasonable.