The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

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morewanking
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The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by morewanking »

I see the following message on some sites today:

Code: Select all

The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality, letting internet providers like Verizon and
Comcast impose new fees, throttle bandwidth, and censor online content. But we
can stop them by using the Congressional Review Act (CRA). Fill out the form
below to join the mission.
sample also found at: https://widget.battleforthenet.com/demos/modal.html

Are this board have users from USA?
Can they do anything useful?
It is still possible to restore "net neutrality"?

Btw, UK have same problem too: The UK will block online porn from April. Here's what we know

If things will continue this way, entire internet will get censored !!!

I am NOT from USA or UK, but net censorship is very evil.
philo
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Re: The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by philo »

Net neutrality is only aimed at a small part of the problem, but is incredibly important.
It is about stopping ISPs from abusing their possition.
For most people changing ISP is at best difficult and at worst impossible.
Yes Facebook censors what it's users can see, yes google filters what you get If you use their search.
Facebook will spy on what traffic you chose to send it's way as will google.

But ultimately what they can do is limited to what you choose to interact with them.

An ISP can (and will if given half a chance) spy on everything you do.
They will take your money to give you access to the internet, then turn around and use the fact that they can block or slow access to you as a customer to extract tolls from companies to be allowed to send you the data you have asked them for.

Repealing net neutrality is not about creating fast lanes for important traffic, it is about creating artificially slow lanes so ISPs can charge twice to move you from the artificially slowed lane they have created to the normal speed lane you used to have.

So yes net neutrality will not adress a lot of issues on the internet, it is not meant to (or possible), it is about protecting the users connection from the worst bad practices of the companies that are granted an effective monopoly over them. Where a monopoly exists (and there are industries where this is the least worst option) there needs to be protection for the customer from the abuses of the monopoly that are almost inevitable without them.
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Re: The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by waywithwords »

philo wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:55 am Repealing net neutrality is not about creating fast lanes for important traffic, it is about creating artificially slow lanes so ISPs can charge twice to move you from the artificially slowed lane they have created to the normal speed lane you used to have.
This is a narrow perspective. It is unambiguously both: slow and fast lanes are relative, and so any system that differentiates price according to usage will have both. All you imply by this is an expectations for speeds to be slower on average at the same price, but that is an extremely difficult thing to predict. If your netflix price goes up, but your internet price goes down, it is entirely possible for you to pay less on net. Further complicating, internet consumers who do not use netflix would see their costs reduced with no down side.

Title II status for internet is precisely a protections from price discrimination according to usage. Full repeal is probably not the long run outcome, but any amount of repeal was likely a step in the right direction. Regardless of how you feel about ISP, failures of local governments, and high usage content-creators, allowing internet providers to set prices according to usage is essential for achieving better internet in the states. Bit-usage is nonlinear in costs to ISPs, and therefore price should not be either. An argument can be made that we as household consumers are likely paying more for internet service to subsidize the businesses that are pro-NN.

Please don't buy into the partisanship of US politics. The very sites running these pro-NN ads are those receiving the greatest benefits from the protection: reddit, pornhub, netflix, major stream sites, etc. They are literally the other side of this debate, and are throwing far more money at it than the ISPs. Forming your opinion on NN based on what you read on those sites is akin to basing your positions on gun control entirely on what is said by the NRA.
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morewanking
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Re: The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by morewanking »

waywithwords wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:26 am Please don't buy into the partisanship of US politics. The very sites running these pro-NN ads are those receiving the greatest benefits from the protection: reddit, pornhub,
Pornhub (and other porn) is most useful sites. For people here, at least.
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Re: The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by janmb »

Grichnoch wrote: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:00 am Net Neutrality has become something of a sacred cow for many people on the internet. They think that "net neutrality" keeps the internet safe from censorship and open to all information and freedom of speech. This is, however, simply not true.
Correct, but net neutrality does something else, which is important: It keeps commercial interests away from throttling your bandwidth (and likewise the bandwidth of the services you like to use)

If for example pornhub or google start facing additional fees from various, necessary links in their chain of connectivity, what to you think that will do to the service they are able or willing to provide to you in the future?

The bottom line here is that it hurts us, the consumers. Either in the form or reduced quality content or increased cost - at the benefit of increased profit margins in the data transportation industry.
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Re: The FCC voted to repeal net neutrality

Post by polkadotwolf »

What is glossed over by the proponents of supposed 'free-market' anti-net-neutrality side is that there is no 'free market' in many places in the US. The proponents argue that ISP harming consumers in the name of profits is impossible because free-market competition won't allow it. Except that the very idea that there 'is' a free market in communications is a myth. Every aspect of communication is under government control and this government regulation creates a huge artificial barriers to entry. The entire industry runs on lobbying the government. Thus there is very little competition and non-free-market environment. The end result is that in vast swaths of the US there is only ONE high-speed provider and TWO if you are lucky.

Also this idea that 'Google' or 'Netflix' is "getting a free ride" is completely false. Consumers pay for bandwidth, Netflix pays for bandwidth. No one is 'getting a free ride'. I have no idea where this idea comes from. There is no free ride by anyone. Everyone is paying shit-tons for bandwidth. Netflix literally pays hundreds of millions of dollars a year for bandwidth. If ISPs demand robber baron 'tolls' on top of this, then consumers will have to pay more. The only one that benefits will be the ISPs.

But forget that argument even. Consider simply the will of the people. That vast majority of people are for net-neutrality. Yet, due to lobbying by ISPs, net-neutrality was repealed anyways. You can say that "people don't understand the issue" and so on, but that is irrelevant. It's clear that not only is there NOT a free-market in the US anymore in highly regulated areas where lobbying rules, but there is also NOT a real democracy either, where politicians feel safe taking bribes (excuse me - 'donations') from companies in exchange for votes going directly against the will of the people they claim to represent.

https://medium.com/mozilla-internet-cit ... b6b77f6cfe
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